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desperately seeking advice!


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dirkdiggler 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: June 05, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 08, 2003 at 2:52 PM / IP Logged  
the wife is coming homew tommorrow and i need help organizing my multicomponet system..here we go..eclipse 3422 and eclipse in dash 6 disk changer are hooked together..then the dignal goes from preamp to eclipse eq..eq goes to precision power 2240, lanzar vibe 250 and tsunami 440db amps..power goes directly form battery to in line fuse to power 3 way distribution box to fosgate capacitor(to lannzar and tsunami amps, ppi is not on the capacitor line...clarion video amplifier seperates the signal from the rosen 5 1/2" headrest monitor and the performance teknique 7 1/2" overhead..sonyexplode 5 1/2 front speakers with tweaters(2)..and kenwood 4 1/2 3 way in second doors  use head units power along with tweeter cut into center floor console.  2 sony explode 5 1/2" 3 way speakers cut into the storage containers in 3rd seat and 4/10"(2) sony explode 3-way in back top are connect to ppi...fosgate he2 dual voice 12" with q-logic sealed box is connected to lanzar(bridged power)  and (2) fosgate he dual voice are connected to the tsunami series wiring..do i need to install a relay if so how do i do it....i was considering making a 3 woofer enclosure 10"-12"-10" woofer order..any suggestions.. any other advice on changing my wiring to better my system..capacitor is a 1.0 farad fosgate punch..for all that have wives that nag or give you the i told you so's band together and please help dirk complete this..i have already soldered all the connections and ran the wires and am ready for the next step..thanks
esmith69 
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Posted: June 08, 2003 at 5:01 PM / IP Logged  

Since you have more than two aftermarket components needing to be switched on using the head unit's remote turn on, you should hook up a relay as shown in this diagram.

What kind of vehicle is this?

How do you have the center tweeter wired up  to the head unit?  Is it in series with one of the other speakers, or parallel?  Are the front sony speakers component speakers?  And if so, did you use the crossover that comes with the set?  Assuming that is the case then the sony components would each be considered 1 of the 2 front speakers powered by the head unit, and the kenwoods would be the two rear outputs from the head unit, right?

Now for the 4 sony speakers in the back powered by the ppi amp, you should have both the left ones hooked up to the left channel, and the right ones hooked up to the right channel.  So the amp will be seeing a 2-ohm stereo load.  Any other way you hook it up will either not be supported by the amp, or will sound less than optimal.

Does the HE2 have 2-ohm voice coils or 4-ohm voice coils?  Hopefully you have the 2-ohm voice coil version, because if you bridge your lanzar amp the lowest impedence it can handle is 4 ohms, which is only attainable by using either a 4-ohm SVC sub, or a 2-ohm voice coil DVC sub wired in series.

If it has 4-ohm voice coils you can of course hook it up as a 2-ohm stereo load on one of the channels, but then you'd need to use the other channel for something in order to really use all the amp's power.

What are these last rockford HE subs you're talking about?  The HE series only come in single voice coil versions...maybe you meant to say HE2?  In that case, does that mean you have 3 HE2 subs (one 12" and two 10")?

I think you'd be better off with 2 12" 4-ohm voice coil HE2s, wired to the lanzar for a 2-ohm stereo load, and then use the tsunami amp to power the front speakers (instead of using the head unit's amp).  This way you also get to control those front speakers' sound using the eclipse EQ.  If you have them powered by the head unit's built-in amp then you would not have that capability.

Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
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dirkdiggler 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: June 05, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 08, 2003 at 6:53 PM / IP Logged  
I really apprieciate the rapid response.. My tweeters are wired into explode 5 1/2" front lh and rh front outputs, 2nd seat  kenwood door 3 ways are wired lh and rh rear outputs.  3rd seat and rear are wired to ppi(that amp kicks ass).  10" subs are the single voice 4 ohm apeakers. Is it even worth hooking them up next to the HE2 (which is the 2 ohm dual voice coil..Is bridging the power to mono the best route for pure bass?  Should I hook up the single 12" to the tsunami, because the tsunami seems to be a cleaner sounding amp..What do you think..tsunami 440db 4 channel or  the vibe 250 1000watts..for bass only..  I still am a amateur when it comes to relays can someone put it into laymans terms I.E.  first find this buy this realy install it here, solder this, run a fuse(30 amp) or a fusible link yadda yadda yadda...I think I understand but that would help... My vehicle is a 1999 suburban..I have also thouht about putting 10's" under second seat...I feel like tom cruise in Risky Business...trying to get the egg back into place before mom gets home.  Thanks again for the advice you really cleared up some questions...keep it coming...also what do you think of my componet's?  honestly...sticks and stones...
esmith69 
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Posted: June 08, 2003 at 8:28 PM / IP Logged  

For bass only, especially with a sub like the HE2 that can handle a lot of power, I'd definitely stick with the lanzar vibe amp.  Mostly the reason is just that the other one is a 4-channel amp, and 4-channel amps cannot be bridged down to a single channel, only to two channels.  Even though the sub is DVC, it is generally not recommended to run each voice coil off of a separate amplifier channel.  However, with the Lanzar it can be bridged down to 1 single output (usually it's the positive from the left channel and the negative from the right), and also luckily you have the 2-ohm HE2s which will mean when they are wired up like this (use the bottom diagram--"wiring option #2"), your amp will get a single 4-ohm load.  This is the best way to maximize the power output of the amp.

If the reason you were thinking of having the 10" sub(s) is because you were worried about the upper-frequency bass, I don't think that's really going to be a concern for you.  if it is just adjust the EQ's crossover accordingly, so that the bass going to the sub overlaps the bass going to the main speakers (so that you don't miss any of the frequencies).

I also highly recommend you use the tsunami amp for the speakers that are currently being powered by the head unit.  The sound quality will be better and they will be able to be played louder without distorting.  And also as I said before doing it this way will give you the most control over the sound, all using the single EQ.  After all, that's what you got the EQ for, right?

For the relays part, you can really buy them anywhere but you seem to be in a hurry so I'd just recommend going to best buy or circuit city to their car installation garage/dept.  They will know exactly what you're talking about if you just ask them for a relay.  They sell them with the socket end included  which makes connecting to it a lot easier.  The actual relay part looks like this, and the socket end looks like this.

It's a SPDT (single-pole, double-throw) 30 amp Bosch-type automotive relay.  You'll notice that each spot on the relay is numbered, and you'll want to make your hookups accordingly (the numbering on your bosch relay will be the same as in the diagram).  Pin 86 goes to the single head unit turn on wire, pin 87 goes to the +12 volts constant connection (run a wire from one of the amp's power wire terminals), pin 85 goes to ground, and pin 30 goes to a wire for each of the amp's turn-on connections.  The ideal way would be to have a 1-amp fuse for each of the 3 turn-on wires, although this is not absolutely necessary.  But still if you're looking to do everything the right way, that's how I would recommend doing it.

Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
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dirkdiggler 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: June 05, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 09, 2003 at 3:47 AM / IP Logged  
Thank you for all of your answers so promptly..  I have learned a lot.  Things that were questions I now know to true.  These local stereo shop guys never want to give you all the answers..because they want to install it for a grand or so....ha ha, I get the last laugh.  Should I disgard the PPi?  Is it necessary in my system..Remember I do have 2 tv's and dvd and vcr...I know its not video post but you seem to know a lot so it was worth a try.  I also solder all connections I can along with shrink wrapping after..Is that the best way to go?  Thanks for the relay info..I definately want to do the system the right way..I am still not sure how to install it..  Do I install the relay directly into the fuse box under my hood and splice wires long enough to reach my amps?   You also said to use 1 amp fuses for each relayed connection, I thought of that already, use inline 1 amp fuses, am I correct?  With the componets I have listed to you, do you think I will have a nice system?  What would you add if it was yours...Oh yeah.. what about making a amp rack (recessed)?  Right now the lannzar and the tsunami are mounted on the back of the second seat.  I put a piece of plywood under the carpet with rivets, but amp racks look so much better recessed with a glass top.  I have 2 very lage computer fans that are ac current.  Do I need a fan(s).  I have a power invertor or can I convert it to dc?  thanks again for all the info..I reward you with...When you are on your death bed you will receive total consciousness......Karl the greenskeeper..talking to denunsio's younger brother outside caddyshack.....CADDYSHACK...
esmith69 
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Joined: November 26, 2002
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Posted: June 09, 2003 at 11:51 AM / IP Logged  

You don't need to use the fans, they were just part of that example diagram.  only if your amps are overheating a lot should you even consider using fans.  With the relay hooked up you could hook up at least 5 different amplifiers' turn-on leads--just substitute an amplifier for one of the fans, in the diagram.

Let me see if I can better explain how to do the relay.  Assuming all 3 amplifiers are mounted near each other, you will run a single 16 or 18-gauge wire from the eclipse head unit's remote turn on wire (either solid blue, or if present, blue/white).  This single wire will then run back to where all the amps are, and then you will do the relay connection right there near the amps.  The  remote turn on wire coming directly from the head unit will hook up to pin 86 on the relay.

Remember that a relay is basically a switch, and you are using it as a switch for the 3 amps, because your head unit might not be able to put out enough remote turn on current to take care of all three amps.  The reason the relay CAN handle all 3 amps is because it's also getting an additional power source, in this case pin 87.  I would recommend hooking this pin 87 up to one of the amp's (doesn't matter which one) +12 volts constant power input.  Whichever amp you choose, you'll still need to run the red power cable directly from the battery or a distro. block to the constant power terminal.

Now the relay will be able to have a good strong source of constant power, so that when the head unit sends it's weak turn on signal, the relay kind of amplifies the turn-on signal using the power it gets via pin 87.  Each amplifier's turn-on connection will run to the same pin 30 of the relay; just solder all three wires at the same point.  Also make sure to put a 1A fuse inline on each of the 3 amplifier's remote turn on wires coming out from pin 30.

There's no need to hook the relay up to the battery directly via a separate wire, as it does not draw much current  and can safely be "piggybacked" onto one of the amp's positive power input terminals.

I would definitely keep the ppi amp how it's hooked up now; just I think it'd be better to use the tsunami amp for the 4 front channels, and have the single HE2 sub off the lanzar amp.  Trust me you will really like being able to fiddle with all the speakers' volumes and equalizing settings all from the single eclipse EQ unit.

Soldering, taping, and applying heat shrink tubing is without a doubt the absolute best way to make any electrical connection.  If you don't mind the extra time it takes then definitely go this route as it will hold up the best.

Have you hooked up the video stuff yet? Or do you still need help with installing that?  If so, what about it do you need help with?

Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
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dirkdiggler 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: June 05, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 09, 2003 at 10:00 PM / IP Logged  

I installed the overhead initially directly to the existing plug for the dome light that I took out.. one problem was the light was on constant power.  There were 3 wires to the existing plug(I believe they were 2 black, 1 orange.)  The light worked but it blew a fuse(I haven't  even started to look at that issue, except for the fact that I checked both the under the hood fuse and the side panel fuse to see if they were blown to no avail.) Do you think I blew a fuseable link? If so how do I check it out?  I did find out how to install the overhead to the existing wires so the overhead lights on the tv would come on when the doors opened and go off when they close..They said to hook the tv's red wire to the black lead  and the black lead to the orange one and leave the black alone,) I could be wrong with the colors here I am on the road via remote.  I went to a store called the Electronics Warehouse in Riverside Ca. today.  Let me tell you that place is now my happy place.  You name it, they have it I promise you that.  From computers to radio's they have it all covered from any step in the line from building to upgrading.  I spoke with a nice old grey beard about the relay situation and he sold me on the idea of running individual circuit breakers to each amp instead of relays..It made sense.  Each circuit breaker has its own reset switch, instead of replacing fuses.. It was 29 bucks per circuit but I think overall it is safer and less of a hasel to install..What do you think? I have the relay and plug as well and I haven't installed either as of yet. 

Back to video questions...I bought a clarion video amp that seems to make it easy to install and have a separate video and car stereo sound line..I.e. kids watch tv via wireless headsets and I can still listen to my stereo..I have a 6 din plug on the back of theperformance teknique flip down it plugs to a 6 din adapter which runs to a 3 way rca adapter, then 3 rca's white, red, yellow go to ??? eQ? head unit? amplifier? Can you help me with a wiring diagram considering all the components (car stereo, amps, speakers, video, equalizer, video amplifier..etc

Since I am using a  Equalizer, do I run the three pairs of pre-amp outputs to the eq first or to the amps then to the eq, what about the tv where is the first plug in for its rca's.  

Wow this is some project, thanks for your expert advice..I ditched the fans..built killer amp rack today.  What do you think about me building a speaker box that had the 10" fosgates on the ends and the12" in the middle. Or should I just bang the 10's. When I had the system hooked up temporarily the 12" was bridged to the lanzar and it was mind numbing at first but would gradually lose power...Let me know...Golf is just a good walk spoiled....Mark Twain...

esmith69 
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Posted: June 10, 2003 at 9:58 PM / IP Logged  
darn I only just now found your post...gimme a bit to check it all out and I'll get back to you
Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
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dirkdiggler 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: June 05, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: June 11, 2003 at 2:31 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks for remembering, I apprieciate it...desperately seeking advice! -- posted image.
esmith69 
Gold - Posts: 1,511
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 26, 2002
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Posted: June 11, 2003 at 11:29 AM / IP Logged  

Well the relays thing is really not all that complicated.  It only involves one relay, and technically you don't even need a fuse for each amp's remote wire.  Usually the remote wires are just fused to protect whatever is the original component (in your case the head unit).  But since you have the relay there things are different.  Really all you need now that I think about it is a single 1A fuse in between the head unit and the relay.  Many head units will have this fuse already inline on the head unit's wiring harness.  It's best to fuse the wire as close as possible to the head unit.

What's the model number of the EQ, clarion video amp, performance teknique monitor, and the rosen monitor? 

Also, what's going to be your video source?  And are you going to be using separate sources for each monitor, or will they be playing the same thing?

The 12" HE2 powered by the lanzar amp should not be "losing" power; most likely it's just that your ears were getting used to the extreme volume.  Either that, or your battery was dying (if you were doing this test with the car off).

Also did you hook the capacitor up yet?

Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
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