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Pushbutton/Toggle Start Install Problem


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mrnvgtr 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: July 31, 2003 at 11:38 PM / IP Logged  

Jeff (Velocity Motorsports) has been kind to help me through most of my install, but I'm still having problems getting it to work properly.  Time is a factor, so I'm asking anyone else on here for help.  I'm sick of having the interior of my beautiful BMW disassembled and am ready to finish this project up once and for all.  With that said, here's the problem.

The following diagram has been followed to the "T".  I'm sorry about the size.  I just couldn't make it smaller without distorting the wording and making it more confusing.  All connections have been checked twice for security.  In brief, this diagram shows a toggle switch that you can toggle to ON and OFF for power.  Then a pushbutton is used to start the car.  To keep some of my car's existing security in tact, the system is designed so the key must be in the ON position for the toggle switch to properly function as an ON/OFF power switch.  If I park my car in an unsafe area, I can take the key out, rendering the toggle switch useless.  However, most of the time, I plan on leaving the key in the same position so when I enter the car I just sit down, toggle to ON, and pushbutton start the car.  Atleast that's how it was planned to work.

Pushbutton/Toggle Start Install Problem -- posted image.

The problem:  When I want to turn the car off, I toggle to OFF, the car turns off, but power remains on.  I have to atleast turn the keys to position 0 or remove them to get the power off.  Am I missing an important item in the above diagram or is this just not a possible thing to accomplish for my car.  That is a possibility because I think my toggle switch idea is very untested.  In fact, this was a hard project because I couldn't find anyone who's done it exactly like this.  Thank you for any help or suggestions on this.

Michael

kenmci 
Copper - Posts: 161
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 15, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 12:15 AM / IP Logged  

I'm not 100% sure on this one, but how did you hook up the relay to the accessory wire, because if you just tapped into it power will still be flowing when the key is in the on position, if you want it to turn off when you throw the toggle then you need to actually cut the wire and if you want it to only work if the key is in then i believe that you should connect on side fo the accessory wire to either 87 or 86 either one will work and hook up the other side to 30.  If you just tapped the wire then you will still have power for the accessories. hope this helps.

NowYaKnow 
Gold - Posts: 1,217
Gold spacespace
Joined: December 18, 2002
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 4:43 AM / IP Logged  
He's right as long as you have the key in the on position those wires will have power. What you want to do is cut both the accessory and the ignition wire and instead of having constant on pin 87 of those relays, you will run one side of the cut wire to 87, and the other side of the wire to 30. Only catch here is that in order to start the car just with the key you will have to turn the switch on. Maybe that's a good security feature if you want to think of it that way.
mrnvgtr 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 5:18 AM / IP Logged  

Thank you!  I'll give that a try later on today when I have a few hours.  :o)  I hope that works.  I'm really lookin forward to putting my car back together.  LOL, what a stupid mod.

Michael

mrnvgtr 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 5:49 AM / IP Logged  

Which sides of the accessory and ignition wires go to pins 87 and 30?  You said to cut them, but didn't say which side goes to 87 and which side goes to 30.

Michael

NowYaKnow 
Gold - Posts: 1,217
Gold spacespace
Joined: December 18, 2002
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 3:42 PM / IP Logged  
Doesn't make a difference hook them up however you want. Another issue with this is that anytime the car is on those relays will be energized the entire time. Shouldn't be a problem but might want to eventually think about changing that.
mrnvgtr 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 01, 2003 at 6:52 PM / IP Logged  

Ok, I may be a monkey brain here, but in my head it really does matter which sides of the accessory and ignition wires go to pins 87 and 30.  If I cut, for example, the ignition wire, one end of the wire goes up into the place where you turn the key and the other end goes down the steering column toward the firewall somewhere.  I'm positive it matters which end you use.  I'm sure what you are saying is correct, but I had to tell you what's going through my head so you can tell me where I'm going wrong.  Sorry I'm a little slow.  If I could take high school again, I'd definitely take that wiring class as an elective.

Another translation - Do you mean take each end of the newly cut wire and route to pins 87 and 30 or do you mean take one end and divide it into two separate wires going to pins 87 and 30?  Thanks.

Michael

Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: August 03, 2003 at 8:47 AM / IP Logged  
Place the KEYSIDE of the cut wire to 87 and the otherside of the cut wire to 30. It doesn't matter because when the relay sits idle ( no power ) the arm rests at pin 87a. When the relay is activated, it throws the arm and connects pin 30 & 87 together.So it doesn't matter which side of the wire is on each pin of the relay.
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
mrnvgtr 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: July 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 03, 2003 at 8:50 AM / IP Logged  

Ah, good explanation Jeff.  I'll give that a go later today and see what happens.

Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: August 03, 2003 at 8:53 AM / IP Logged  
Sorry for the late reply Pushbutton/Toggle Start Install Problem -- posted image. It's been busier then ever before for me. Let me know how you make out with the final product.
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
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