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Tach sense problems, tech supp disagrees


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MrZappo 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posted: November 30, 2003 at 10:19 PM / IP Logged  

I have a Toyota Tacoma (04) with a 3.4 v6.

Installing a remote start/alarm etc ...

Hooked it up for tach sense and have done extensive research to discover the following.

Main issue is that the tach sense works perfectly to start the truck. I have the correct wire (verified with a DMM) Testing A/C from .8 to around 3 or 4 volts when engine reved up a bit ...

Ran through the learning procedure and all was well. Started the truck and was on my way...  Parked, and left for 10 mins or so and remote started again. It again perfectly started the truck. Then the reuck died and it ran its starting cycle again ...

I got home and analyzed what was happening. The truck starts, runs and idles down to (600-800 RPM) (Probably programmed and controlled by the computer. When the RPM gets low, the remote start turns the engine off and recycles. Starts and does the whole thing all over again. I discovered that it runs fine and does not die If I hold the gas enough for the truck to stay just above low idle (900 RPM or so)...

Called the manufacturer and was told to use voltage sense (which is garbage and only works if the truck is warm) (otherwise it takes three or four attempts). Manufacturer claims that if tach voltage drops below 1 volt that their unit is programmed to interprit that as the engine dying and that it runs its cycle again which begins with killing the engine. Basically they say that this is working as designed ...

In reading the plethora of posts regarding tach sense on this forum, I see many experienced folks stating that tach wire is 0 volts when engine is off (obviously) and that it is .5 to 1 volt or so at idle. And of course up to 6 during higher RPM ops ...

So, my question is simply, is it common for Tach voltage to be below 1 volt at idle and if so is it not rediculous to have your unit designed to consider any voltage under 1 volt as the engine dying ???  If the engine being off the tach wire is at 0 volts then why not have 0 be your test for a stall ??? Is not ANY voltage on the tach sense wire an indication that the engine is DEFINITLY still running ???

Either way, I checked, rechecked my connections which are all soldered and the remote start works great as I said. It perfectly detects the engine start and disengages the starter. But, it only runs until the engine heats up enough to go into low idle when it then shuts off which sort of defeats the purpose ...

So, everyone in the forums mentions using a fuel injector wire for tach sense which I suppose I could try. Before I do however, I want to get the opinion of some experts as to weather or not it is worth my time to do so ... Is it likely that the fuel injector wire will stay at or above 1 volt so as to NOT trigger this unit into falsely running its cycle again ???

Secondly, if the manufacturer giving me a line ???  It seems rediculous to me that this is a feature as opposed to a bug ...

JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
Platinum spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: November 30, 2003 at 10:53 PM / IP Logged  
What brand/model number of remote start?
Color/location of wire you used for tach?
What is the procedure of learning the tach signal for the unit you are using?
A trick I use on Toyotas and Hondas at my shop:
You might want to try to learn the tach signal while the vehicle is in gear. Set parking brake, step on brake pedal, shift into drive and then do tach learning. The truck will idle lower in gear than when idling in park. Worth a try, and should be easy to do.
Next option is to try an injector. But before that, test the voltage at an injector to see if you will get 1+ volts that way. If your still going to get less than 1 volt, probably won't help.
MrZappo 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posted: December 01, 2003 at 9:15 AM / IP Logged  

It is a commando FM-870 (Marksman M11).

I am using the light green wire with black stripe located at the igniter. Passenger side wheel well.

I warmed up the truck and let it get to approximately low idle. I put the unit into learn mode which by the way blinks the tail lights repeatedly to let you know you have a good tach signal. (Above one volt). I sit and wait for the vehicle to lower its idle. It lowers and the lights stop blinking. I hit the gas slightly and the lightts begin to blink again. As soon as I take my foot off the gas, the lights stop again. Basically, as the voltage drops, the unit is saying that it has no tach sense. I did confirm that voltage is still present via a DMM. It is right at 1 volt.

I understand what you are saying by the (put it in gear thing) I guess that this would slow the idle as well. Well, mine is already undectable (by this unit) at idle without even being in gear ...  If the injector is over a volt it may work and I suppose I could try that...

Also, last night, I noticed something. This unit still uses a "crank timer" even when in tach sense mode of about 0.6 seconds which is never long enough if the vehicle is cold but always long enough if it is warm. I thought that tach sensing was also used to determine when to shut down the starter ...  Is this correct ???  Are their units that use tach sense to determine starter run time ???  This seems to defy logic. Why go through the trouble of sensing tach if it is simply a "engine is on"/"engine is off" signal ...???  I would rather junk this thing and have a unit that used better "intelligence" as opposed simple timers which may or may not be accurate depending on temperature ...

Any advice is appreciated thanks ...

JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
Platinum spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: December 01, 2003 at 9:55 AM / IP Logged  
Meter a wire at one of the coils. Use a wire that is NOT BLACK / YELLOW, BLACK/ red, or brown
ossrom 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: October 30, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2003 at 10:20 AM / IP Logged  
i've installed this alarm a few times and had the same problem. in my opinion this particular model was badly designed because i've tried tach wire in the car, by the coils, the fuel injector wire and even the voltage sense in the alarm..... this aproches seem to work fora while and then the problm comes back again. advice, get a better alarm that will actually read the tach wire whle crank time, which will define how long the crank will be. one thing i do when my customers have this problem is i tell them to leave the air conditioner on before they turn off the engine, this way when the alarm turns the engine on, even if the car is warm, the idle will be higher. however this is an inconvinience. your better off getting another alarm.....sorry can't be of much help with your problem.
HamiltonAudio 
Silver - Posts: 278
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 15, 2003
Posted: December 01, 2003 at 10:25 AM / IP Logged  

have seen a vehicle or two that just had too -low a tach signal to keep the car running (or even start it).  You can use a tach multiplier to take your weak tach and pump it up...ask your supplier for one.  I've used one or two and they solve this issue permanently.

But try an injector or coil wire first...I know on GM's the coil signal is way too low, but the injector is just right for Autostart...may be the same for Commando on this tacoma...only trying will tell.

b

MrZappo 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: November 30, 2003
Posted: December 01, 2003 at 1:15 PM / IP Logged  
Anyone know where I can get a tech multiplier ???
ercsv 
Member - Posts: 1
Member spacespace
Joined: December 02, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: December 02, 2003 at 11:16 PM / IP Logged  
try camshaft sensor
diabloed 
Copper - Posts: 133
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 25, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: December 03, 2003 at 12:38 AM / IP Logged  
um you might also want to reprogram the tach on the RS and wait untill the engine settles a little bit.
i've had this problem before. if you set the tach at to high of an idle when the truck idles down it will kill the starter

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