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Help me pick an amp and sub


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dyno 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: February 08, 2004 at 8:13 AM / IP Logged  
I'm going to be putting together my first car audio system this spring. I'm planning on buying the sub and 4-channel amp in a month or two and I'm just trying to plan things out now and figure out my budget. Here's the key info:
1999 GMC Sonoma Extended Cab
Amp Budget: $250 - $350 CDN
Sub Budget: $100 - $150
I'm basing this budget on what I've seen on eBay (maybe a bad thing to do, but I'm planning on buying it from there likely as I don't really like any of my local shops).
I'm trying to build this for sound quality. At the moment, I'm considering the Alpine MRV-F340 and I'm really undecided about the sub. Kicker CompVR's were recommended to me by a friend. I'm limited in space though because I want to try to built a box that will allow me to still use my third seat. So I'm probably looksing at 10" subs with a low profile.
To contradict what I just said about sound quality...my limiting factor for the moment will likely be my source. I'm using a computer as my source, so that will likely be a consideration. I don't want to spend $500 on an amp that you can tell the difference from a $300 amp.
As for wiring, the way I *thought* I would wire it is connect the four stock speakers to two seperate channels, then bridge the third and fourth channels and run the sub off that. At the moment I'm happy with the factory speakers, but I will likely upgrade them eventually to component speakers. If you can make recommendations about wiring too that would be great!
Thanks,
-dyno
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 08, 2004 at 10:16 AM / IP Logged  

I have a couple of points for you to consider. 

First, you may be happy with the way the factory speakers sound now powered off the factory head unit.  But this does not mean you will be happy if you add an amp to them.  Most factory systems are rated at 20 watts or less, and OEM speakers generally are designed for maximum output at very low power input.  In other words, they cannot handle higher power and will not be suitable for adding an amp.  Second, on the same topic of the factory speakers, often they are low impedence drivers (2 ohms) again to try and squeeze a bit of extra SPL out of very few watts of input.  So, if you try to connect them as you describe (4 factory speakers driven off 2 amplifier channels) you run the risk of placing too low an impedence load on your amp, and could damage it.  Also, adding an amp will show up all the deficiencies in the OEM speakers, and they will sound much closer to crap than to good with higher wattage input, even if they could handle it.

You need to decide what you are really after in your truck.  From your description, it sounds to me that what you are really trying to accomplish is to make it louder and add a sub woofer.  If this is true, then I suggest you might be happier with a limited budget to simply add the sub first.  Get a good system with a dedicated sub amp that will fit into your truck.  There are some nice stealth enclosures for your GMC which will enable you to keep as much interior space as possible.  Or, you could easily add something like a Bazooka self-powered system and stay within your budget.  Then, after you save a few more $$, make a second purchase and install new speakers to replace the factory ones, and add a 4-channel amp to drive them.  If you are serious about wanting better SQ, then you will also need to replace your factory head unit, but that could be your third step.

The Alpine amp you list is a fine choice.  I also recomend US Acoustics as good quality entry-level amps.  The USB-4065 is half the price of the Alpine.

Cheers!

dyno 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: February 08, 2004 at 10:42 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the tips! Yeah, I kind of realized that I would likely have to replace the factory speakers sooner or later if I started driving them with an external amp. I was just hoping I could get away with it for a bit. I won't be using a convential head unit at all (or so is the plan). I will run RCA cables from my source (computer) to a equilizer (looking at the clarion 5-band one), then to the 4-channel amp. Since I'm eliminating the head unit, I obviously need a way to drive the stock speakers. I guess I'll see if I can find out the load of my speakers to see if this will work.
Can you give me some brands of the stealth boxes? I know JL makes one but it's for two 10's and I think that's a little much for me (price and power).
-dyno
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 08, 2004 at 11:05 AM / IP Logged  

Clarion and MTX make good stealth enclosures for the Suburban/Yukon  that replace the center arm rest between the from seats.  The MTX Thunderform enclosure holds a single 10".  Loaded with an MTX sub and powered, they run about $350 Canadian, I believe, which may push you over your budget unless you can find one on eBay or something.  I've installed that one before and it sounds really nice.  The Clarion comes with an 8" woofer and is a bit cheaper.

I missed the bit about using your laptop as a source.  Playing MP3's?  Make sure your sound card is the best you can get and that you have the necessary output adapters, as the sound card will not have RCA outputs.   So yes, with this you will need an amp.  I suggest you use a 4-channel amp and run the OEM speakers off it, one speaker per channel.  This way you'll stay safe.  A seperate sub amp is the way to go in any case.

DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 08, 2004 at 11:09 AM / IP Logged  
OOPS, you said Sonoma.  The MTX Thunderform enclosure for that model fits under the seat, as does the Clarion.  This model is a bit cheaper than the one for the Suburban.  Sorry, guess I need to finish my coffee before I start posting on here!!
dyno 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: February 09, 2004 at 6:25 AM / IP Logged  
Cool thanks. I'll take a look at those. At the very least, they'll give me an idea how I could build a custom box that might work.
I was doing some more looking and really like the JL 450/4. Would this be more suited to running my stock speakers AND sub? This is of course after checking the load of my speakers.
Also, any suggestions on subs that would match either the alpine or JL in my price range?
Thanks again,
-dyno
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: February 09, 2004 at 3:24 PM / IP Logged  

Here is a wrench to get thrown into the spokes. How much are you going to pay for the eq? Why are you using the computer as a source? If it because of MP3 or storage capacity or whatever, this is a highly distracting and very dangerous way to use an audio system. It is also 100% illegal to use this in Canada according to our great motor vehicle act. If you must head down this path, so be it, do it at your own and my own risk, I hope you are not on Vancouver Island, we already have enough bonehead drivers here, no offence intended.

Post up a couple of comments and lets see if we cannot get you started on a similar but safer and better path. I don't want to nix what you want to do, just need to understand what you want to do. Make sure you post up about the dollars on that eq.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
spl_enterprise 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: February 09, 2004 at 4:10 PM / IP Logged  
get a memphis setup. the 1000d is affordable and puts out nice clean power. and get a few memphis studio/ or h.p.'s that'd sound nice.
Pete - SPL Enterprise Inc.
dyno 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: February 09, 2004 at 5:04 PM / IP Logged  

spl_enterprise: I've had Memphis recommended to me before (their 5-channel amp, which ever it is). When I checked it out though, it seemed a little pricey. I'll take another look.

forbidden:

Thanks for the info on the legalities. What exactly makes it illegal though? Is it the physical pc? LCD? Because there's lots of vehicles with LCD's, DVD's, GPS etc. BMW 7-series even run Windows.  Just looking for clarification on this, as yes, I don't want to break any laws here, or put others in danger.

I will be using the computer for MP3's, DVD's, GPS, and ODB-II analysis. I'm writing the software for the interface now so that it is customized to my needs (which is keeping my eyes on the road and listening to great tunes). There will be external buttons like a stereo for controlling the music as well, so I won't have to fumble with the screen while driving. Once I load a playlist, there will be very little driver intervention.

I'm likely going to buy the equilizer on eBay. I've seen it for $50US new.

-dyno

spl_enterprise 
Copper - Posts: 62
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: February 09, 2004 at 5:31 PM / IP Logged  
the memphis really isnt that expensive. its far underpriced compared to its quality. the 1000d is a 2 channel class d and you can take it down to 1 ohm if your electrical system can handle it. look for them on ebay. i see them listed a lot. if you are looking for a nice decent little 5 channel amp check out the lanzar vibe series. they got a nice 5 channel one.
Pete - SPL Enterprise Inc.
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