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hypothetical question about power


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icu400 
Copper - Posts: 123
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 12, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 12:17 PM / IP Logged  

I was reading through the thread about how someone's battery keeps dying from their system.  I was wondering if this is a consistant problem with people that install a car audio system.  I will be installing shortly a 1100 watt sony mono sub amp and 2 sony 10's.  The amp should be delivering around 200 watts rms at 2 ohms I believe to the subs, each.  The new stereo I am putting in should not draw any more power than the old one I believe.  So really the only new drain on the battery and in turn the alternator is the amp.

I have already replaced the alternator in my car once (it died about 6 months ago, car is 1995 and had not been replaced yet), and I do not feel like doing it again.  So what I want to know is this:

1)  Is this a common problem?  If so is it only among high power systems, of which I don't think mine is one.

2)  What can I do to keep it from happening?  If i turn down the gain on the amp, lowering the wattage?, then would that in turn keep it from drawing so much from the battery?

just some input, if yall would, thanks

icu400 
Copper - Posts: 123
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 12:25 PM / IP Logged  
update: alternator looks to be around 95-130 amps, good enough?
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 12:30 PM / IP Logged  

1.  Yes, it is a common problem, especially with novices or people who do not understand that car audio is manipulating electricity, and that the alternator is the SOLE source for electricicty in a running vehicle.  It is not only with high-powered systems (although it is certainly more common the higher system power is taken.)  It can happen in any car with any additional electrical load added.  It is especially more common in newer cars which are often designed with just enough electrical capacity for the loads of the car and nothing else.  Car makers do this to save costs and to improve gas mileage.  That's also why cars use the absolute smallest gage wires possible: to save costs and improve gas mileage.   So, no matter how big your system is, you run the risk of overloading and burning out your alternator.  That's why I suggest an altrnator upgrade quite often.

2.  Turing down your gain will NOT, repeat NOT limit the power your amplifier can produce.  Your amplifier will retain its ability to produce maximum power and to draw maximum current with any gain setting.  Gain is not a volume control nor a power limiter.  It simply matches the input capability of the amp to the output voltage capability of the head unit.  That's ALL.

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icu400 
Copper - Posts: 123
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Joined: April 12, 2004
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Posted: April 15, 2004 at 4:38 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks, now, to fix/identify the problem:
I have a 1995 Ford Explorer. I am not quite sure what the amperage is on the alternator, but probably around 100. Is there a way that I can find the aprox. amount of amps drawn by the rest of the car, assuming low a/c usage and stuff like that? I know it would not be easy, but is there a way?
Then, while I suppose I could find the amps that the amplifier is going to draw, I need first to know what "watt" value is the correct one to use in the calculation. Is it the RMS value or just the 1100 watt value on the amp? A little math help here please.
Now, if there is going to be a problem, what can I do to compensate, short of installing a new alternator? Go a step down on the amp I suppose? Will a mono amp pull more than a stereo one or less? I am willing to sacrifice the amount of power going to my amp/subs if it means not having to replace the alternator after I just got a new one like 6 months ago.
customsuburb 
Gold - Posts: 1,813
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Joined: January 17, 2004
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Posted: April 15, 2004 at 4:49 PM / IP Logged  
Use the RMS rating to identify how many amps your amp is drawing. A stereo amp is not more powerful then a mono amp but it will produce more heat and less power then one (a mono amp is more effecient). Your sony amp should not place too much of a strain on your explorers alternator.
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
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Posted: April 15, 2004 at 5:00 PM / IP Logged  

Determining how many amps an amplifier will draw is easy.  Look at the fuse on the amp.  It cannot draw more than that or the fuse would blow.  Always use RMS power ratings at 12 (or 12.5) volts.  All other ratings are for marketing purposes only.  A mono amp and a stereo amp with the same power ratings will draw the same current from the electrical system.  I believe an Explorer comes with Ford's 130 amp alternator, and your vehicle under normal operating full-load conditions should use less than 80 amps.  So on a truck you do have some headroom.

Is your new amp a Sony Explode XM-D500X?  This amp is actually rated at 250 watts RMS and will draw about 20 amps, so you should be fine.

By the way, if you do run into power problems, short of a new alternator there is no real solution.

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icu400 
Copper - Posts: 123
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Posted: April 15, 2004 at 6:27 PM / IP Logged  
Yeah, thats the one. Thanks for the help. I have not actually installed the system yet, I am waiting till the beginning of the summer to get my new stereo and I am gonna do it all at one time when I have a weekend off to take my time. Just doing a bit of research to get my head straight on what to do. Thanks for your input.
One other question while I am here, why do companies throw out these big numbers for wattage and so forth? Just to impress people? Cause it seems kinda stupid...
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 7:27 PM / IP Logged  

icu400 wrote:
One other question while I am here, why do companies throw out these big numbers for wattage and so forth? Just to impress people? Cause it seems kinda stupid...

Yes, you have it exactly.  And it works or they wouldn't do it.  It's like PT Barnum said... a sucker born every minute...

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icu400 
Copper - Posts: 123
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Joined: April 12, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 8:32 PM / IP Logged  
I still can't see how the amp would be producing 250 watts even if the volume was turned down, i mean it would not need as much current when its at lower volume, which in turn could mean lower power?
Or does RMS mean that no matter what you do it will ALWAYS need that 250 watts?
I am gonna try and find out if my alternator is 130 amp, if it is I bet I am fine, but if its a 95 amp one i think i might be screwed, but who knows.
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: April 15, 2004 at 8:39 PM / IP Logged  

Input gain control is not the same as volume.  But yes, if you never turn the volume on your HEAD unit up past half, then the equipment will in theory operate at about half its power ratings.  Gain is completely different.  People often mis-use it thinking it is a volume control, and end up blowing amps and speakers.

RMS is the maximum safe normal operating rating.  Peak means the equipment is capable of hitting, but not sustaining, that rating for a very short period of time.

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