the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

Capacitors and other ideas


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
casedeez 
Copper - Posts: 160
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 21, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 21, 2004 at 2:09 PM / IP Logged  

Hey guys, First post here. I am installing 4 jl 12 w3 d4's into my 98 dodge dakota. Im going to be running them off of two kicker zr 360's. I couldnt find what spec my alternator is but ill be working on that here soon. I have the tow package so im guessing its at least 130 amp. Anyway with the system im going to be running what size capacitor would you recomend running? Or would you do something different? Keep in mind Im on somewhat of a tight budget and would like to do this the cheapeest way I can. From what ive found a capacitor is a capacitor, so if you think otherwise let me know caps you would recomend.

Thanks

DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,740
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: April 21, 2004 at 2:27 PM / IP Logged  
Realize that caps won't help you if you have too small an alternator, so if you need to upgrade it, do that first.    Caps can help your amps sustain peak output levels, but can't help with weak electrical systems.  Caps are caps, for the most part.  When comparing, look for ones with lower ESR ratings.
Support the12volt.com
casedeez 
Copper - Posts: 160
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 21, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 21, 2004 at 11:36 PM / IP Logged  

Ok now say, Im running two kicker zr 360's. max output is 800 watts said by kicker. However they can put out more power than that under the right condidtions. In any case Im going to be running two of them, what size alternator should I use? From that point what size capacitor should I use?

thanks

bfog99 
Copper - Posts: 212
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 04, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: April 21, 2004 at 11:51 PM / IP Logged  
With what i found about those amps, you probably will not need a high output alterator. The highest rating I saw was 360 watts RMS x 1, but you will have 2 amps, so 720 watts RMS. That will draw roughly 56 amps. If you have a 130 amp alt as you stated, you have plenty of room.
casedeez 
Copper - Posts: 160
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 21, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 12:01 AM / IP Logged  

On the birth certificate I have here of the amplifier, it states that the amp ran at 477 watts continuosly and this was at 4 ohms. Imagine the possibility of running this same amp which is stable at 1 ohm stereo and 2 ohm mono at either one of those. I would be drawing more than 360 watts. I realize they could have ran the amplifier at 14 volts but as any kicker enthusiast knows the amps kicker makes or at least the zr series was severely underrated. The amp is a beast and can push more than what kickers saying. Just for kicks If I am running with 720 watts and my alternator is roughly 130 amps, where would I be ok going with just a farad capacitor?

On a side note I had a honda civic si which I believe that the alternator on it was at least 70 amps. I had the amp 2 12's and a farad cap hooked up and I was still getting the dim light deal when the bass hit. Is there another explanation?

Thanks for all the help

haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,053
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 12:32 AM / IP Logged  
This is a canned response to everybody for the next week that asks if they can "fix" their problem with a new battery, another battery or caps... DYohn and forbidden and I have been trying to get people to realize this for ever. Your alternator is too small. You have to upgrade it. I din't care how many caps you put in your system, it will not fix a low current supply condition. Even if your alternator is rated 70 amps (and I think it is probably smaller than that, being fairly familiar with many things Honda - I have an LX with power everything, and mine was only 55 amps) that is only 1008 watts being supplied by the alternator. AC will draw somewhere in the 25 amp range (360 watts) your headlights are around 5 amps(70 watts, on low beam 110 on high) clearance lights will pull a total of 8 amps (115 watts) brake lights 2 amps (30 watts), the engine just running uses 9 amps (130 watts)... 1008-360-70-115-30-130=303 watts. How you gonna run a 700+ watt amp with only 303 watts? Do you see where all this is going? Your alternator is too small! A cap will not magically "make power", it just gives you power in different ways i.e. high current for short periods of time, but when it is empty, it is just another load for the alternator to supply power to. Also, a class AB amplifier will NEVER be 100 percent efficient, 50-75 percent is more like it, so, if you are putting out 700 watts to the load, you are also blowing off 350 watts in the heatsink, for a total of 1050 watts or 73 amps! You can not forget that an electronic device is NEVER 100 percent efficient. If that were the case, there would be no such thing as heatsinks, because there would be no heat. If your lights are dimming, you need more alternator. There is NO OTHER WAY AROUND IT... not caps, not batteries, not battcaps, A-L-T-E-R-N-A-T-O-R.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
speedwayaudio1 
Silver - Posts: 879
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 12:46 AM / IP Logged  
haemphst, and DYohn could not be any more correct. Caps are cool to look at. They do help when you have plenty of current feeding them. Get the alt. To find out what amp rating your alt has call a parts house and ask them to look it up for you. GET the alt.
Big Dave
casedeez 
Copper - Posts: 160
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 21, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 1:41 AM / IP Logged  

haemphyst-

Thats what Im talking about. That information you gave me is pretty much what I was looking for. It explained a heck of a lot to me. I appreciate it. On the other hand I did not have a problem yet. All of my stereo is sitting in my room waiting to get put in after I build the box. In the mean time I am getting all the information I can to make the system as flawless as possible. Instead of blindly installing my system I want to work the kinks out before I install it. See, up here (Oregon) people all over the place happen to install whatever they buy right from the stereo store. Most people I know only have the knowledge of hooking up an amp and a couple subs. The really smart ones can bridge the amp. I was there once, however I am working on learning more. This is where this forum and other installers come in. I by no means know everything. The information you gave me was excellent. It was detailed and answered a whole lot of questions.

The information I knew previous to this was that a capacitor basically charges your amplifier rapidly. Other than that I was told "a cap will make it so your lights dont dim..." BTW the alternator that was in the honda which happened to be a 91 civic which doesnt come with may power options did not have the stock alternator in it. (Among other parts that werent original)

Lastly, say I have to get a new alternator. Is there a brand/ place that I can go to and get a good alternator at a relativiley inexpensive price? On that note is there a way I can accurately caclulate the amperage I need from my alternator based on what I am using in the truck. IE amps, power everything, lights etc?

Again thanks for all the help you guys have been giving up. Its truly appreciated.

kickerstang 
Copper - Posts: 180
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 08, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 6:53 AM / IP Logged  

YOU KEPT SAYING YOU HAVE A 130 AMP ALTERNATOR AND YOUR PULLING 720 WATTS, THE WATTS ARE NOT WHAT YOU ARE PULLING, YOUR PULLING AMPS AWAY FROM THE ALTERNATOR.  LOOK AT YOUR AMPLIFIERS, HOW BIG AND HOW MANY FUSES DO THEY HAVE? NOW ADD THEM TOGETHER.  NOW TAKE ABOUT 75% OF THAT, THAT PROBABLY CLOSE TO WHAT YOU'LL BE PULLING FROM THE ALTERNATOR.

I HAVE A MA AUDIO HC1302, 130 x 2 @ 4ohm , 1300 x 1 @ 1/2 ohm, IT HAS 3 30AMP FUSES ON IT, SO YOU'D FIGURE IT PULLS 90 AMPS RIGHT? WRONG. I DID A TEST TO SEE ABOUT HOW MANY AMPS I'M PULLING, I REPLACED ALL 3 30 AMPS, WITH 3 20 AMPS AND CRANKED ON IT FOR A FEW HOURS, DIDN'T EVEN GET WARM. SO I'M PULLING LESS THAN 60 AMPS ON AN AMP THAT SAYS IT PULLS 90. 

what!?!?! you want some??
flatulatta 
Silver - Posts: 356
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 28, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: April 22, 2004 at 9:04 AM / IP Logged  
could you put bigger amp fuses in an amp 2 get a higher draw or will it fry the amp?
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Tuesday, February 7, 2023 • Copyright © 1999-2023 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer