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Odd problems


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Francious70 
Silver - Posts: 629
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 3:59 PM / IP Logged  
Hello all, I am a new poster. I hope I can be of help here at The 12 Volt. I hape a pretty good knowledge of all things stereo related, but these problems I'm having leave me quite confused.
The Components:
1996 Chevy Blazer, 4dr., V-6, Black (car)
Pioneer DEH-7400MP (head unit)
2 Pioneer 4x6 (dash speakers) (wired as front speakers)
2 Infinity Reference 5.25 (front door) (wired as rear speakers)
2 Pioneer 5.25 (rear door) (wired as rear speakers)
1 Infinity Kappa Perfec 12.1D (wired in parallel)
1 Pyramid Crystal 1000W (bridged) (not a very good amp)
On order: 1 Phoenix Gold Xenon 400.1
The Setup:
I have all the speakers wired into the factory wiring. The head unit uses the factory wiring. I have the RCA cables run behind the dash to the left, over the steering wheel, down the door jam(sp?), and to the back from there. I have the power wire run from the battery, to the passenger door, and underneath the car.
The Problem:
(1) Seems to be that every time I start my car, change CD's, or just turn the radio on, the amp goes into protect. So what I do is turn the head unit off, then on again, and it works. What the heck's up with that?
(2) After about 25-30 minutes of constant listening, the amp (I'm guessing it's the amp) only puts out half power or less.
(3) Kinda related to problem 2. At times I get a strange hum from my sub. When I use my brakes, it makes another strange sound. For lack of a better description, it sounds like a short fart. Seems like it only does this at night.
My Hypothesis:
I actually have a couple ideas, but I'm not to sure.
(1) The amp is shot, which I know that it is, but that Phoenix Gold amp, I actually have installed it before, and still had problem 1 happen. Which would mean that it's actually a problem with the head unit.
(2) The head unit is shot. Plain and simple. I don't like this theory.
Anyways I'm gonna rip all of the amp wiring out and re-run them and see if that helps any. Doubt it will, but it needs to be done anyways.
Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions in advance.
Paul
archemedes 
Copper - Posts: 172
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 08, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 4:02 PM / IP Logged  
you probably have a ground problem, and the head unit may not have enough current on the turn on lead, use a relay that may help
defective 
Silver - Posts: 642
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 20, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 4:24 PM / IP Logged  
i the second the ground notion, it amazing how many problems you can have with one stupid ring connector....Odd problems -- posted image.
Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 4:28 PM / IP Logged  
I am on board with the ground issue. I would also add a relay to the remote line, just to be better safe than sorry, also I love that little click of the relay triggering the amp:)
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Francious70 
Silver - Posts: 629
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 5:07 PM / IP Logged  
Than you for all for your relpies.
When you say a ground problem, do you mead a ground problem with the head unit or the amp?? And also, for a relay, would you put that on the rempte line?
Paul
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 5:21 PM / IP Logged  
Ground problem with the amplifier. If you are running the amp in mono and running it at 2 ohms, this doubles all tasks that the amp must do. Chances are that you are also asking the amp to do something that it was not designed for (this I am assuming as it is a 2 channel amp that is bridged to mono and running at 2 ohms). It most surely will send the amp into protection. Make 100% sure that you have a good ground for the amplifier.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Francious70 
Silver - Posts: 629
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 5:42 PM / IP Logged  
The amp is supposed to be 2 ohm stable. I have it grounded to the bolt that holds the backseat to the body, so that should be a pretty good ground, but if not, do you have any other reccomendations as to where to ground it?
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
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Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 5:47 PM / IP Logged  
Most 2 channel amplifiers are stable to 2 ohms stereo - this is the same as 4 ohms mono. I highly doubt that this amp is stable to 2 ohms mono. If it were then you would also have a 1 ohm stereo rating. The bolt that holds the seat in is usually a poor ground. In most GM vehicles it is best to run a ground wire direct to the battery due to the resistance on the ground return.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 6:46 PM / IP Logged  
WO WO WO WO WO WO WO. Rob are you telling him to run the ground for his amp strait to his battery. If you are I am going to have to whole heartedly disagree. Rule of thumb is 3 feet or less for the amp ground. If you wanna run a saftey ground thats one thing but to run the amp ground that far is Ludacris to me. I would use a wire brush on a drill and scrap the paint off a piece of double metal in the vehicle by the amp then use  self tapping screw to ground the amp. Also wouldnt hurt to reground the battery under the hood being the factory grounds usually suck.
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: July 26, 2004 at 6:59 PM / IP Logged  

Yup, the reason for it is simple, resistance on the ground return. It is not about the size or amount of metal in the chassis, it is about the resistance through it. Most GM vehicles are a combination of crappy metals, real crappy welds (like the ones that hold seat bolts down) and glued together unibody panels. These all equate to a fairly high ground resistance. Next time you have a GM through your bay make sure you check this reading, most installers do not think to check it. In my years this is something that I learned the hard way, it has blown more amplifiers than I can now remember.

While you are correct with the assumed proper way to gound the amp, you did not mention to check the resistance and no worries dude, most people do not as they were not trained to do it. It is good practice to check it every time. If the ground is above 1/2 ohm and it cannot be made to go lower, bad things can happen when you try and pass current through it. Excessive heat build up, lower power output and in the case of a Rockford amp, pretty much can guarantee a failure if the amp is used on subs and ran hard. I still hook up amplifier how you have mentioned, but I will always check to see what the resistance is and explain to the customer what could happen and why and let the customer make the determination as to where to ground to.

As a side note (not that I did this) start yourself a table of the make, model, year and resistance reading of the vehicles that you work on, you'll find that GM is the worst offender. While I might have jumped to conclusions on where to ground his amp to, I did it based on the knowledge that I have gained on many vehicles just like his.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
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