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1000V (I<1mA) from Car Stereo Amp?


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jameier 
Member - Posts: 2
Member spacespace
Joined: August 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 11, 2004 at 2:02 PM / IP Logged  
I want to convert a Jensen XA3022Lx 300W class B amplifier to a 1000V  or greater High Voltage AC amplifier.  The current I will draw will be 1mA or less.  I know how to power the amplifier and get the signal out.  I just want to know if there is any potential problem creating this high of a voltage within the amplifier as opposed to a high current as it was intended?
John Meier
dpaton 
Copper - Posts: 141
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 9:21 AM / IP Logged  
Well, let's see. You'd need to:
  1. Totally redesign the power supply (transofrmer, caps, regualtors, etc)
  2. Add HV insulation all over the amp
  3. Replace the output devices with ones rated for the HV
  4. Rework the feedback network to compensate for 1 and 3.
  5. Replace the output connector with one rated for kV class connections
You're better off designing a new amp from the ground up. The work required to retrofit an existing amp to make it do that will be more than designing somethign fresh.
Now tell me, why the hell do you want a 1kV output floating around in your car? Unless you've worked with HV equipment before, it's a very big risk. Regular wires aren't made for it, and the insulation will break down and eventually short with spectacular, but unfortunate results. Enlist the help of a suitably trained professional before you attempt anything of this type.
If it's for neon, go with a kit.
-dave
This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack.
jameier 
Member - Posts: 2
Member spacespace
Joined: August 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 1:29 PM / IP Logged  

It's not for a car, it's for a high voltage microfluidics experiment.  I am an undergraduate mechanical engineering major at Stanford... and a car audio fanatic.  I have actually done a proof of concept, my input is an Agilent Function/Arbitrary Waveform Generator, and my load is an oscilloscope (1Mohm)and a capillary full of a colloidal suspension of 0.1mM KCl solution and a very low concentration of silver rods (6 microns long and 250 nanometers in diameter) (~129Mohm).  Therefore the total load is approximately 1Mohm, and the current drawn from the amplifier is just under 1mA, so the power drawn is about 1 watt.  I set it up with the Jensen amplifier and ran an AC voltage of 40V peak to peak, but didn't want to turn it up any higher until I heard back from someone on here, because I thought that at 1000V (max) (2000V peak to peak), something may arc inside the amplifier.  The reason I am doing this is because car stereo amplifiers have much higher slew rates than even the $4000-$10000 high voltage amplifiers in our lab, so they keep up with the waveform much better with less distortion.  I'll probably abandon the project for now even though it seems to work well, just because the technique probably wouldn't be well recieved in the microfluidics community if it were outlined in a paper.  But it works... I did it.  I just wasn't sure about cranking it up.  Thanks for the reply though.

...and I would NEVER put neon lights in my truck.

John Meier
94legend 
Silver - Posts: 237
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 27, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 1:34 PM / IP Logged  
Uh...... wow. i only read one setence.... Uh... LOL
I just do it. I dind't need to take class's etc.. but good for you . U'll have a degree in mechanical engineering.
Maxst 
Silver - Posts: 866
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 06, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 3:32 PM / IP Logged  

damn...dont think 3/4 of the members here will understand what you just said.

I think you know what your doing.   If the amp blows...what do you loose? couple hundred dollars with a nice smoke show...

What is is your trying do? put in 1000 volts into an amp on the rca input?

I need quality equipment, feel free to donate.
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 4:58 PM / IP Logged  
As an option, you might consider a transformer... EASY PEASY! The difficulty will be determining the core type you will be wanting to use. What frequency are you trying to run? If you are using anything up to around 120Hz, you could simply use a 12/120 (that's 12,000 volts, 120mA) and drive the primary with the outputs of the amplifier. If you are using frequencies higher than that, an EI iron core will not likely pass them effectively, and you may need to go to a toroid or perhaps a ferrite core. These options may require you to find a specialty transformer, or build one yourself. There are MANY ways to get to those voltages, (especially at those low currents) without spending several hundred dollars. PM me, and I can get you in touch with some sources for possibilities. BTW, what is the desired end result of these experiments? You don't have to tell me, but I am dying to know what the experiments are for... 1000V (I<1mA) from Car Stereo Amp? - Last Post -- posted image.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
xetmes 
Silver - Posts: 586
Silver spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2003
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 6:45 PM / IP Logged  
I was gonna say to use a high quality transformer. What is the frequency? What is the slew rate you desire? or are you just trying to keep it as high as possible?
dpaton 
Copper - Posts: 141
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 11:02 PM / IP Logged  
jameier wrote:

It's not for a car, it's for a high voltage microfluidics experiment.

Ahhh. I'm beginning to understand. Form what you'vesaid, you need an amp that will do 2kV p-p with a slew rate of several thousand V/uS. That sounds like the perfect application for a (gasp!) tube amp. Solid state devices rapidly break down under conditions like that. Firebottles ar eyour friend in this application. Unfortunately, I'm not old skool enough to help with the design, but my rudimentary knowledge tells me that a single stage pentode driven by your 40VAC would probably do it.
Having done a little bit of work in the world of esoteric research, simply specify that the exciter used was a custom unit. If anyone asks, simply send them the gain, slew rate, and power output and let them build their own. I did a similar thing for a rheology experiment, with an RC car speed control for PWM generation. No one ever questioned it.
-dave
This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack.
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: August 12, 2004 at 11:08 PM / IP Logged  
AHHHHhhhh.... My head is going to explode.
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