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Will Plastic flatten sound?


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skunk0526 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 10, 2004 at 1:40 AM / IP Logged  
My front speakers in my 00 civic are mounted on the door skins (which are completely plastic) Instead of directly to the door. After changing the front speakers, dynamatting the doors, switching the amp, checking for phase, checking for correct speaker wire size, Amp and head settings, crossover adjustments,( I also used a tone generator).
So far all these steps have improved the sound slightly but at mid to higher volumes, any crescendos which should be crisp, fall flat. My rears are fine (mounted directly to back deck, with dynamat)
As far as i can sermise, the next logical step would be to cut MDF rings and mount them to the door itself.
I was just hoping that i'm heading in the right direction with this. Any suggestions from the vets?
      Thanks
2000 Honda Civic 4DR
Alpine 7892 HU
PPI A404.4 [HP] w/.5F Cap.
PPI A600.2 [LP] w/1F Cap.
Infinity Kappa 3-way 6.5"
Infinity Kappa 6x9
Infinity Kappa 4OHM DVC
VT Slot Port Box
Dynamat rules
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: September 10, 2004 at 8:21 AM / IP Logged  
Yes, that's the right direction.  Any movement at all in the mounting face will counter the impact of the midwoofers.  You want the support to be rigid.  Screw a length of bracing across the back of the panel if you have to...the whole support panel should be rather inflexible.  I'm not very much of a veteran, though, to warn you....but I do know that much!
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
skunk0526 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 13, 2004 at 12:22 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the input stevdart, I mounted MDF rings to the door and it sounds much better.
However, i think this is a dual problem. My highs in the front still do no sound vibrant enough. Higher frequencies in particular, especially cymbals. I have a feeling it is the amp. When i swapped RCAs to test the amp the first time & there was no improvement, I dismissed the possibility of the amp being bad. Not realizing that the speakers were still connected to the same amp! It was to late to take stuff apart again tonight, but i will be playing more tomorrow.
Does this sound like a possible culprit?
This is my first time having an amp act funny. Has this in particular happened to anyone else? 
2000 Honda Civic 4DR
Alpine 7892 HU
PPI A404.4 [HP] w/.5F Cap.
PPI A600.2 [LP] w/1F Cap.
Infinity Kappa 3-way 6.5"
Infinity Kappa 6x9
Infinity Kappa 4OHM DVC
VT Slot Port Box
Dynamat rules
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: September 13, 2004 at 8:05 AM / IP Logged  
Listen to the highs with the doors open...the angle of the tweeters will be toward you then.  See if you like it better that way.  If so, then you might want to change the angle of the tweeters.
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
skunk0526 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 14, 2004 at 12:49 AM / IP Logged  
I even tried it with my ears pressed against the tweet, Most higher frequencies are either abent or very muddied-
    After a little research i think my problem is the amp, which i will be switching tomorrow so stay tuned. From what i gather, output transistors going bad seems to be a problem with well used amps. Although it is not a really old model, i did purchased it used (who knows how it was treated before) and even though it did sound good for me at one time, It may have not liked the higher voltage pre-out of my eclipse, and finally went kuput.
Sound like a good theory? I hope so, caus i'm running out of them!
I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
    Ryan
2000 Honda Civic 4DR
Alpine 7892 HU
PPI A404.4 [HP] w/.5F Cap.
PPI A600.2 [LP] w/1F Cap.
Infinity Kappa 3-way 6.5"
Infinity Kappa 6x9
Infinity Kappa 4OHM DVC
VT Slot Port Box
Dynamat rules
skunk0526 
Member - Posts: 33
Member spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 18, 2004 at 2:38 AM / IP Logged  
OK, I'm at the end of my rope here.
    I just installed a ppi a404 amp, replacing the amp i thought was bad and eliminating the amp for the rears since the ppi is 4ch. Still, they don't sound loud or clear enough still. Could the doors acoustics just suck that bad? I replaced every component thus far and still very little improvement.
   They rears however, are more clear and dynamic than ever! Tried switching rca's, amps, swapping outputs on the crossover, ETC....... THE FRONTS JUST SEEM TO SUCK NO MATTER WHAT I TRY!
Heres the bst decription i can give: The sound of a wine glass being rubbed around the rim, At higher volumes.
Should i try to baffle them maybe?  
Any other options anyone can think of, short of making FG pods? (which i think is my next step).
GOING NUTS AND BROKE!
2000 Honda Civic 4DR
Alpine 7892 HU
PPI A404.4 [HP] w/.5F Cap.
PPI A600.2 [LP] w/1F Cap.
Infinity Kappa 3-way 6.5"
Infinity Kappa 6x9
Infinity Kappa 4OHM DVC
VT Slot Port Box
Dynamat rules
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: September 18, 2004 at 1:20 PM / IP Logged  

By you moving your litening position to different areas around the tweeter has basically eliminated most problems. If they do not sound good with you moving around the tweeter, they will still sound the same with the tweeter moving around you. IE: moving it to the kickpanel. This is why Stevdart suggested to listen to the tweeters with the doors open. If this did not make any difference then there are only a couple of possibilities. One is a bad signal being amplified, the other is just a poor tweeter or crossover that is controlling it. If the rear speakers sound fine (if you have them), this pretty much eliminates the signal as the problem. Try another pair of speakers, even basic coax speakers to see if the top end changes. If it does then we have a problem with the tweeters or the crossovers that control them. Are these the OZ coax's in your sig that are presenting the issues?

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
chevyman26 
Copper - Posts: 227
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 14, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 18, 2004 at 8:54 PM / IP Logged  
Is there even tweeters in the front at all, or just the coax's?
You'd better get me out of this lord... or else you'll have me to deal with. -- Hunter S. Thompson "F.A.L.I.L.V."
Esco1977 
Member - Posts: 46
Member spacespace
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posted: September 19, 2004 at 6:32 AM / IP Logged  
i had i similar problem back in the day w/ my nisssan. and as soon as i built fiberglass door pods.......    problem solved. you want excellent sound from the front... start playing w/ fiberglass
Esco1977 
Member - Posts: 46
Member spacespace
Joined: July 30, 2004
Posted: September 19, 2004 at 6:40 AM / IP Logged  

i first bought 2 sets of kicker components,i put one set in the rear deck and one set in the doors,after i finshed up the install i turned it on to find out the the front stage just sounded like sh*t, like they were blown or something. so i switched from the front speakers to the back and back to front ... same problem. So a friend of my at the time, who was reallg into this kind of stuff said i needed to build fiberglass enclourses for the front doors. now it took my a while to get them right as this was my first experience w/ fiberglass but after hearing how sick it sounded, ive done it in like 6 of my other cars since than. to me if you want sick sound from the front, there is not another option learn to fiberglass door pods or have someone do them for ya

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