Creative Sound Solutions 4.5 Q's -steven?

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kfr01

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Posted: October 31, 2004 at 9:42 AM / IP Logged

Is this driver capable of operating in the car environment (heat, cold, humidity, etc.?)

I'm thinking of using this driver in the kick panels operating from 300hz up. I plan to run these without a low pass crossover or a tweet for a bit to see how they do.

I would eventually build a crossover, crossed fairly high, to my current quart tweets to fill out the top end.

Any comments on this plan?

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

kfr01

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Posted: October 31, 2004 at 10:16 AM / IP Logged

You may ask why?

Well...

1) The off-axis response on my quart 6.5"s in the door locations leaves much to be desired as it approaches the 2.5khz xover point.

2) I have space between the speaker mount and the plastic door panel / grill. I've done everything I can short of modifying the door, which I don't feel confident enough to do, and I still get some strange midrange harmonics from the panel vibrating or acting like a ported enclosure or whatever. I've raammatted the plastic and stuffed the crap out of the plastic panel w/ acousta-stuff. This helped, but I still get mid-high freq. harmonics. Pisses me off.

So short of ripping my door off or glassing my door, I want to get my midrange driver out of the door. I'll leave the quart 6.5" in there as midbass for now. The bass region seems to be easier to clean up with a little eqing than all the stange higher freq. peaks.

Anyway, thoughts?

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Steven Kephart

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Posted: October 31, 2004 at 11:31 AM / IP Logged

It should work. Just keep in mind that it is an 8 ohm driver. Also check out the off axis response and notice that the high end extention is only on axis. In doors, I don't know if they will play high enough. However adding a tweeter to the high end will help.

Another suggestion I have is our new Extremis 6. It has a deep mounting depth at 3.5", but the motor is rather small. Take a look at the new pics that show just how small it is. We also just added some distortion measurements and spectral contamination plots. The results are most impressive, having distortion levels well below any other well reguarded speaker on the market. Here's the link: http://www.adireaudio.com/TextPages/Extremis6PageFrameText.htm And here's a link of an excursion video I took of the driver: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Extremis6.AVI I think you will be very happy with the results, and you won't have to use a midbass as this driver will probably have more midbass than pretty much any other 6 on the market, but still have the upper end extention.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

haemphyst

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Posted: October 31, 2004 at 9:08 PM / IP Logged

Steven, I am not really questioning you at all (OK, maybe a little Creative Sound Solutions 4.5 Q's -steven? -- posted image.

), but you mention the on- and off- axis plots of the four inch driver in question. What about the Extremis 6? There is no mention of the off-axis plots. Beaming (off-axis response)is NOT a function of voice coil inductance, (and Adire DOES excel there) but of the driver diameter. How can you claim that the off-axis upper response of a six will be the same as the off-axis upper response of a four? Won't the Extremis have (roughly) the SAME off-axis response as the Quarts? The ON-AXIS response can CERTAINLY go as high as a four inch driver, but we are comparing apples and oranges. If you replace a six with any other six, won't the sound-power be pretty close to the same?

...or has Adire discovered something in physics, and not shared with the rest of the world <grin>

I am only asking this this way because I was under the impression that a 6 inch driver will always beam at the same wavelength... Input welcome and appreciated...

kfr01, I am in the same boat as you... I really do not want to glass my doors either, but my sound power SUX!!! I have a pair of 3 inch Vifa mids I am eventually going to put in betwen the Morel MW-162 and Infinity eMit tweeters I presently have. Now that I have my UCSPro's, that is something I am hoping to have done before I go to the CES in January... TIME'S A WASTIN'!!! Better hop to it!!!

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

kfr01

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Posted: October 31, 2004 at 9:52 PM / IP Logged

Wow. That alto mobile equipment looks nice! Are they a new company? If only someone would come out with decent dsp equipment like that for home audio that didn't cost an arm and a leg. (I have this vision of an all active Morel Tweet / Extremis 6 / Koda 8 tower that I'd like to build.)

My thinking on the off-axis response: it will be much easier to get a smaller driver in my kick. In the kicks the 4.5" driver should be reasonably ON-axis. This should take the response out fairly far, judging by their tech. pdf.

I might try it - I can always build little home speakers with the drivers if I don't like it.

On a practical note: I don't know anything about impedence handling of amplifiers. Will it harm my amplifier at all to run at 8ohms? If not, I think the 50 watts halved should be just fine for those drivers based on the tech. pdf.

Thanks for the comments and help.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

haemphyst

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Posted: November 01, 2004 at 1:07 PM / IP Logged

No, you will not hurt your amp by running the output to an 8 ohm load. Yes, you will suffer a loss of output power (depending on the amp, a little less than half), and your gain will need to be adjusted accordingly. This, in conjunction with the small driver will require a bit more tuning.

Alto Pro DOES make a DSP will all the same functions as the UCSPro. It is actually where the UCSPro came from. It is found on the Alto Pro page, here and it's the second one down. It's called the MaxiDrive, and I think it'll run around 500 bux. Not a lot of money for the performance it gives!

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

kfr01

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Posted: November 01, 2004 at 1:44 PM / IP Logged

Interesting, I wonder how that compares to the Behringer digital crossover.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Steven Kephart

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Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: November 01, 2004 at 9:29 PM / IP Logged

haemphyst wrote:

Steven, I am not really questioning you at all (OK, maybe a little Creative Sound Solutions 4.5 Q's -steven? -- posted image.

Yeah, I probably didn't explain myself that well. He mentioned that he was going to try running the speaker without a tweeter for a while. I just wanted to point out that the 4 won't have the extention off axis (for the very reason you mention). My suggestion of the 6 wasn't to claim that it would have that upper extention, but that it was a good possibility working along with the tweeter. And actually even on axis, the 6 won't touch the 4 in upper end response. The 4 has a phase plug that allows it to go up to 18 kHz, while the extremis starts dropping off at I believe around 4 kHz. Again, sorry for the confusion.

BTW as an aside on the inductance issue, the Extremis 6 actually has a lower inductance than the 4. It is super low at .13 mH which isn't much higher than most tweeters. Creative Sound Solutions 4.5 Q's -steven? -- posted image. Not that it makes a difference though in any way. I just thought it was interesting.

haemphyst wrote:

that is something I am hoping to have done before I go to the CES in January... TIME'S A WASTIN'!!! Better hop to it!!!

Are you going to be at CES? If you do, you HAVE to come by our room. We will probably have the 4's on display for you to hear, as well as many other intresting things.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Steven Kephart

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Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: November 01, 2004 at 9:40 PM / IP Logged

haemphyst wrote:

Wow, that is an incredible processor. What frequency steps are the crossover points at? I really like my Sony processor. It has some advantages over that Alto Mobile unit (gotta love 72 dB per octave slopes), but then the Alto Mobile unit looks to have some advantages as well. I wonder how they would compare. How much does that unit go for? I would love to have similar processing, but not be required to run Sony head units.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Steven Kephart

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Joined: November 06, 2003

Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: November 01, 2004 at 9:47 PM / IP Logged

kfr01 wrote:

If only someone would come out with decent dsp equipment like that for home audio that didn't cost an arm and a leg. (I have this vision of an all active Morel Tweet / Extremis 6 / Koda 8 tower that I'd like to build.)

You probably already know about this one, but here's an offering from Behringer that has even more capabilities from what I understand: http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=6788&Category=Audio_Processors

BTW, if you wait a little bit, there will be some reference designs out for the Extremis driver. Also if you are running a sub, I really don't think you will need the Koda 8 on the low end. The Extremis 6 can go down just as far as our AV8, which are well known for some great extention in our kits using them.

kfr01 wrote:

I might try it - I can always build little home speakers with the drivers if I don't like it.

Those speakers will be used as surrounds in my house. I am really thinking of doing a computer speaker with them as well. The one's at work are most impressive sounding. You really don't notice the early roll-off.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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