Best speakers at 55W RMS?

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august

Member - Posts: 3

Joined: January 16, 2005

Posted: January 16, 2005 at 11:55 PM / IP Logged

(Sorry for the coded messages below ... used the wrong text editor!)

I am putting together an upgrade system for my 2004.5 Audi A4 3.0 Avant. The choices of amplifiers that will fit into the right rear compartment in place of the factory amp/sub are very limited. After considerable dismantling, measuring and researching I have purchased the Memphis Belle 600, 5-channel amp. It is one of the few that would fit and it seems to have a good reputation! This amp produces 55W RMS per channel. I was originally thinking that I would use 6.5” Diamond Audio Hex component speakers but my research is suggesting that they require a lot more power than 55W to do them justice even though they are rated at 20 – 170 watts.

Has anyone had any success using these speakers with this little power?

If the Hex speakers are a bad choice than what speakers should I be looking at? I understand that it is a personal choice but I would appreciate any insights. I generally play rock and roll, world, jazz and classical music. I am interested in high quality, accurate sound, highs not too bright and clean mid-range. I will be using a JL Audio 10W3v2 sub powered by the 400W fifth channel of the Memphis Belle. I have no interest in rattling windows ……… just good clean sound!

Both JL Audio and Memphis make 6.5” speakers that are well suited to run on 55W but I haven’t come across anyone raving about them yet. I am hoping to find the perfect speaker to complement this amplifier.

Thanks for your help!

John

kfr01

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Joined: April 30, 2003

Posted: January 17, 2005 at 2:03 AM / IP Logged

Ack. Where have you been researching? Whatever you've been reading is horribly uninformed. 55 watts of real power, like the excellent Memphis puts out, is more than enough for quality components.

You seem like a smart guy. You should learn how power works. Start at your base speaker efficiency, if I remember correctly those Hex are ~90db+ efficient. This means that with 1 watt you can hit ~90db+. 90db is fairly loud. After this, every doubling in power adds another 3db. Pulling a full 55 watts continuously from that amplifier will push the SPL near 110db before any sort of cabin gain or before any summing of the stereo material. 110db is loud enough to start causing hearing loss within an hour if you listen at that level continuously. Another thing to remember is that even if you're listening pretty darn loud, amplifiers can put out more, they'll just do so with more distortion or for a few peak momments. They don't just shut down when asked for 56w. Finally, use the 3db per doubling of power rule to see how silly it is to worry about power to components after 50w or so. What would buying a 170w amplifier compared to 50w amp gain you? First, you only use anything above 50w when you're really cranking it past 105db. Second, it only gains you a MAX SPL of less than 6db. It takes a 10db jump for music to sound twice as loud. I hope you see that 55w rms will be just fine for those Diamond speakers.

Anyway, not to beat this to death, but I'm trying to kill some very bad advice that someone gave you. Sadly, these rumors usually start with bad sales people trying to 'upsell' someone on more power.

Hex speakers are an excellent choice. The silk tweeters on the 600s should fit the bill given your sound requirements. I have demoed the JL next to both the Memphis and Diamond speakers. The JLs don't even come close to either Memphis or Diamond, in my opinion. Nice subs, harsh and weak mids.

Anyway, let us know your thoughts / what you pick. Good luck! :-)

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

petergozinya

Member - Posts: 31

Joined: December 30, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: January 17, 2005 at 9:49 PM / IP Logged

I agree with that . I hope my advice was thoughtfull and presented. But i can't seem to find it.

august

Member - Posts: 3

Joined: January 16, 2005

Posted: January 18, 2005 at 1:19 AM / IP Logged

Thank you all for your input. I am definitely going with the s600s Diamond Audio Hex speakers in the front.

I am still undecided on the rear speakers. Audi places the tweeters for the back speakers high and forward on the rear door such that the driver’s side tweeter is about 10” from your ear! I am thinking that it would be better to use a coaxial speaker in the rear doors. If I wanted to preserve the level of quality set by the front speakers I have been considering adapting the Hex speakers into a coaxial configuration at the rear with custom spiders that I could machine. Seems like a lot of work though. Diamond Audio also makes a coaxial speaker, the CM361. They have aluminum tweeters that make me a little concerned as I am trying to stay away from too bright a sound. And in general I think they might not sound as good as the Hex’s.

This brings up the larger question regarding what to do with the rear channels. I guess the common wisdom is to adjust the fader such that you are just hearing the rears. It seems to me that any speaker that is inferior to the fronts would diminish the quality of the fronts, even at a lower volume. Am I off track here?

What do you all think? Is there another brand/model coaxial for the rear that would complement the Hex’s up front or should I stick with the same speakers in the rear and go to the trouble to modify them into coaxials?

A side question to all this: have any of you actually mounted the Hexes in an Audi A4 ’02 – ’04? The crossover looks to be a bit large. Is there any problem installing it on the inner door panel clearance-wise?

kfr01

Gold - Posts: 2,121

Joined: April 30, 2003

Posted: January 18, 2005 at 10:07 AM / IP Logged

Rear speakers are a funny thing. Everyone has an opinion.

I, for one, prefer no rear fill. I feel it is simply unnecessary and detracts from the front stage. I don't like 'virtual surround' at home, why would I like it on the road?

Some on this board share this opinion, others don't. Those that argue for rear fill say that it 1) gives some sound to the folks in back 2) helps wrap the sound around your head 3) and helps fill the car with sound.

Common practice is to greatly attenuate the rear speaker so you can barely hear it. I think Diamond actually recommends 10db attenuation, which sounds twice as quiet as the front speakers. With that in mind, I would say that whether you choose the Diamond coax or another Hex pair, probably wouldn't matter in all practicality. I'd probably just throw in the coax speakers unless the budget still allowed the Hex series. I guess one nice thing about putting the Hex in is that you could attenuate the tweeter even more, helping remove some of the localization effects tweeters can produce.

No matter what you do, you should definitely disable the tweeter 10" behind your ear. Tweeters should always be as close as possible to the midrange driver - shoot for no more than 4" apart for top quality sound.

Finally, you seem like you have a fair budget to work with. I guess before I'd spend the extra money on rear fill I'd make my front stage into a 3-way system. Midrange + tweeter in kick panel, dedicated midbass in doors. This would bring the midrange and tweeter on-axis, smoothing out the frequency response curve, help create a better stage, and relieve the midrange of bass duties that can cause slightly strained vocals when everything is firing at once. Just an idea.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

petergozinya

Member - Posts: 31

Joined: December 30, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: January 19, 2005 at 9:30 PM / IP Logged

I would like to mention that i was not much into rear fill untill i purchased a very nice alpine with time correction. It really make's an acoustic envirment work (for you) I've let my freind's sit on the driver side and they say "damn that's amazing " "the rear speaker's sound like there right by your head" I do have more prossesing than that but i belive it's the true culpret for a front and rear stage to work together.

you also were asking about other speaker choice's, based on the coaxial design, fultron made a very nice one year's ago called the areis (<spelling) they had the tweeter far in the cone where the voice coil was. (best place i think for it) it also had a high power rating with an attension to detail apperance.

another one (better) since you are willing to customize, look at illusion audio. you could easily overwhelm you're front stage with a wide band tweeter (dyna audio,morel) mounted to the inverted neo motor. (don't blow off that time correction talk ,very complex in design, technolgy 's answer to rear fill!

BTW: nice car, i owned an A90 never got to play with it audiOably. let us know what you do! thad

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Best speakers at 55W RMS?

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