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Engine noise: which lines cause it?


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Priusguy 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: April 03, 2005
Posted: April 05, 2005 at 12:51 PM / IP Logged  

I have 4 engine noise related questions:

1.  I've seen reports that 12v-on amp remotes lines are too weak to cause engine noise but another that says he has seen it all too many times.

2.  I've also seen disagreement about which method is best for reducing the chance of getting engine noise when connecting a head unit without low-level outs to an amp:

A.  Hooking up the head unit's high level outs directly to the amp's high level ins.   OR

B.  Head unit's high level outs to a Line output converter (LOC) and from that to the amp using RCA's.

Beyond just engine noise, any opinions re: which is better (2A or 2B) for fidelity (distortion, etc.)  would also be appreciated.

3.  In case of 2B, since both high level outs and RCA's are involved, which should one choose to send the signal down the length of the car to an amp installed in the trunk:

a.  Head unit's line level outs (from the head unit all the way to the LOC placed in the back where it's hooked up to the amp with short RCA's)  OR

b.  Long RCA's from an LOC installed near the head unit.

Once again, beyond just engine noise, any opinions re: which is better (3A or 3B) for fidelity (distortion, etc.)  would also be appreciated.

4.   Lastly, is it true that one only need worry about engine noise induced on lines carrying sound to the amp, but not on the lines carrying audio from the amps to the speakers?

Thanks.

Satkunas 
Copper - Posts: 97
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 04, 2005
Location: Canada
Posted: April 05, 2005 at 1:46 PM / IP Logged  
Excellent questions...
Priusguy wrote:

1. I've seen reports that 12v-on amp remotes lines are too weak to cause engine noise but another that says he has seen it all too many times.

This is extreemely rare and I've only seen it happen on very cheap amplifiers. If your hooking up more than one amp it wont hurt to boost the source current by using a relay.
Priusguy wrote:

2. I've also seen disagreement about which method is best for reducing the chance of getting engine noise when connecting a head unit without low-level outs to an amp:

A. Hooking up the head unit's high level outs directly to the amp's high level ins.   OR

B. Head unit's high level outs to a Line output converter (LOC) and from that to the amp using RCA's.

Beyond just engine noise, any opinions re: which is better (2A or 2B) for fidelity (distortion, etc.) would also be appreciated.

Don't do 2A. The voltage of the headunit is much greater than the input for the amp. You'll end up blowing you pre-amp inputs in your amp if the headunit is over driven. Most OEM decks will have more than 5v, while most amps can only handle 1/10th of this voltage at the input.
On the same note, you will have serious clipping at the input of your amp due to the line-level mismatch. A 5v input on a 500mV input will have serious square wave clipping. You will have a much better chance of preventing distotion with scheme 2B.
Priusguy wrote:

3. In case of 2B, since both high level outs and RCA's are involved, which should one choose to send the signal down the length of the car to an amp installed in the trunk:

a. Head unit's line level outs (from the head unit all the way to the LOC placed in the back where it's hooked up to the amp with short RCA's) OR

b. Long RCA's from an LOC installed near the head unit.

You'll have much less chance of inductive noise if you keep the voltage as high as you can during the transmission of the signal from front to back. Going with scheme 3B is the way to go, however this may introduce a ground-loop if you ground the line-level convertor at a different potential than the headunit. If you put the line-level convertor at the back and it requires a ground, you should also run a ground wire to the deck instead of grounding it at the back with the amps.
Priusguy wrote:

Once again, beyond just engine noise, any opinions re: which is better (3A or 3B) for fidelity (distortion, etc.) would also be appreciated.

4.   Lastly, is it true that one only need worry about engine noise induced on lines carrying sound to the amp, but not on the lines carrying audio from the amps to the speakers?

Thanks.

Exactly. The higher the voltage, the less chances you have of inductive noise entering your signal path. Low level signals (RCA) are much more succeptible than your speaker wires.
Priusguy 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: April 03, 2005
Posted: April 05, 2005 at 3:02 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the response, Satkunas.

Regarding your answer to 2A: did you perhaps mistakenly think I was going to connect my head unit's high level outs to my amp's LOW level inputs?  (I would never do that!)

Regarding your suggestion re: 3b, that ground-loop issue is something new for me to consider.  The ground-loop would be caused by my grounding the line output converter (LOC - a PAC-OEM2 in my case) in the back?  Hadn't planned on grounding the head unit anywhere at all (differently than it's been done at the factory.)


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