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Component speaker questions


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jdog0411 
Copper - Posts: 150
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 05, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 2:04 AM / IP Logged  

Hey all, I'm currently running Infinity Kappa 5 x 7 coaxials in all four doors of my Explorer. I'm currently running them off my Pioneer head unit. I'm looking to get an amp to power them, but I'm also thinking about replacing the front speakers with components. I have a few questions about this:

Will component speakers sound be better enough to make the switch worthwhile?

If I should switch, which components are the best? I think 5.25's will fit in my doors, but I'm not sure. I would probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of $250-300. to spend if I had to.   I want crisp clean highs, and very clean mid bass. I have been considering Boston Acoustics Pro 5.5's, MB Quart, etc. I would probably leave the kappa's in the rear for fill.

I don't have any experience with components....I'm assuming the tweeters and mid woofers of each set would individually be amped by a four channel amp? So, the four channel amp would be just for the fronts, and the head unit could power the rears. What would be a good clean amp to power high quality components?

Thanks all....

2004 BMW 325ci.
Alpine CDA-9885
JL 300/4 and 250/1
JL XR 5.25 comps
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12
jdog0411 
Copper - Posts: 150
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 05, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 2:10 AM / IP Logged  
sorry...one other question: Which is preferable, 5 x 7 components (same size as factory) or round 5.25, 6.5, etc speakers? I would think the round component mid bass woofers would be better, but I have also seen 5 x7's. Thanks...
2004 BMW 325ci.
Alpine CDA-9885
JL 300/4 and 250/1
JL XR 5.25 comps
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 8:48 AM / IP Logged  

When using rear fill speakers, the fronts should be the same brand as the rears for tonal harmony.  What you're talking about is a revamping of your audio system.  It wouldn't do you any good to use components of one brand in the front and coaxials of another brand in the rear if their tonal qualities differed.  If you like the sound of the Infinities now, you should first look at Infinity components.  If, on the other hand, you are not impressed with the tonal quality of the treble sounds....look at replacing all the speakers.

Listening is the key when choosing speakers.  If you know other people with sound systems you admire the sound of, find out what component brands they use.  If that's not the case, go to dealers and listen to several lines.  The quality of the treble response should be pleasant to listen to over long periods of time.  We all have differing opinions on the sounds from different types of tweeter materials....some types make an immediate impact on us as being "precise" and "dynamic", but my be fatigueing to listen to for an hour.  Other types of materials may not be as noticeably "crisp", but are pleasant to listen to all day long.  I like the sound of silk or hardened fabric tweeters myself.

6.5's will almost always fit in a 5x7 opening by using an adaptor ring, but you will have to do some precise measuring both in depth and to the grill.  You want the largest mid woofer you can fit (6.5 is good) in the front for your midbass reproduction.

Of course, any upgrade to your speakers will necessitate the addition of a quality amplifier.  I would suggest using the four channel amp to power all of the speakers, and leave the head unit's power out of it.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
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Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 12:28 PM / IP Logged  
stevdart:
This may cost me whatever fledging credibility I have on this board, but I disagree with this statement:
"When using rear fill speakers, the fronts should be the same brand as the rears for tonal harmony. It wouldn't do you any good to use components of one brand in the front and coaxials of another brand in the rear if their tonal qualities differed. If, on the other hand, you are not impressed with the tonal quality of the treble sounds....look at replacing all the speakers."
In my few years installing stereos I have had the same branded speakers upfront and for rear fill to work with exactly once. Sure it sounded outstanding (JL Audio VR series stuff all around), but I've always used very inexpensive bottom-end stuff for rear fill ... Infinity Reference is usually my first pick. I would argue that even the "rear fill" concept precludes the need for the same speakers up front... I think I can speak for the audiophile mindset when I assert that the correct volume for rear-speakers is 'barely noticable'... something fairly clean that makes noise.. but tonally I would say that rear speakers are, in fact, the *least* relevant componet to the overall SQ of a system.
While I certainly agree with your basic supposition... that the same speakers all around is *ideal* ... I couldn't disagree more with the idea that no matter what his listening tastes, an Infinity Kappa coaxial isn't a great rear-fill speaker. Furthermore, choosing between decent stuff all around from the same brand (i.e. JL VR stuff all around) and choosing orgasmic stuff from one brand and semi-decent stuff from another, (Boston Pros upfront, Kappas in the rear) my own experience would dictate the latter, absolutely without question.
I agree with the tweet-material recommendation..I would never put metal tweeters in my car, ever. MB Quarts always sound great on a sounding board but I've heard some treble in-car that'd cut right thru ya..
jdog: From reading all that you prolly guessed that *I*, with 2490-some less posts than stevdart, would tell you that replacing rear speakers given the ones you have is simply goofy. I'd tell ya to throw all ur money into a beefy 4-channel and a nice set of componets. *If* are are thinking of adding a 4-channel later.. don't waste ur time with the componets in the first place. Without real power to run componets they won't sound any different than the Kappas. (Prolly worse, componets are usually less-efficent and with the 20 watts or so u have to work with I can't tell you how underwhelming that will be) In fact, you'd really be better off adding the 4-channel *FIRST* and then deciding if you need new speakers... amped speakers sound WAYY better and the Infinity Kappa series really is quite good.
How is that vented box for the Perfect coming?
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
KarTuneMan 
Platinum - Posts: 7,056
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Joined: December 14, 2004
Location: Isle Of Man
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 12:58 PM / IP Logged  

When using rear fill speakers, the fronts should be the same brand as the rears for tonal harmony. Huh...?

I dont agree with this.....just my opinion...And I drive a truck...NO rear fill, so Ill just sit over hear in the corner and mind my own business......

Francious70 
Silver - Posts: 629
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Joined: July 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 1:03 PM / IP Logged  
Yes, that statement is true... in it's own way.
Generally you want to stay with the same line of speakers thru out you listening environment for timbre matching, but in a car, it's not really necissary.
Now, when doing 5.1 in your home, that's a different story. You'll want to timbre match you front mains to your center channel.
Paul
jeffchilcott 
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Joined: April 11, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 2:05 PM / IP Logged  
I have ran fronts/rears of the same brand before and I am actually happier now that I have diffrent ones.    Althought I am looking into replacing the rears with the same component set as I run in the front (i like every passenger to have the same experience) I dont think it will change much to the overall sound we have now
Components must be amplified as stated before.
as far as metal tweets go, I will explain it as this,   If you are familiar with the Trick Daddy song "dro in da wind"    The recording is horrible, and most sounds through metal tweets sound closely like this unless u have independant crossovers on your tweets and can adjust them to a lower level independantly.
I switched from silk tweets to metal tweets after blowing our silk ones.     I am now looking for a good set of silk tweets that I can purchase alone
2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 2:49 PM / IP Logged  

See, now that's what forums are for.  Having 2000 posts on this forum doesn't qualify me as more expert than anyone else...it just means I have 2000 posts on this forum.  Please just give your opinions to the original author of the thread instead of singling me out for debate.  If you'd (sedate) just reply to the thread with your opinion without replying specifically to me, I wouldn't feel the need to add more to this.  I just offered up one opinion...I don't need to justify it to the community.

If you want another opinion, just add $20 to my usual fee....        ;)

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
jdog0411 
Copper - Posts: 150
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 05, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 3:01 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the replies everyone. To answer a few questions, I am DEFINITELY getting a four channel amp to power my satellites, whatever they end up becoming. I just got back from looking at four channel amps actually. I will be getting the amp before I replace any speakers, just to see what a difference it makes. I'm going to try and get an amp that puts out a clean 100 watts rms to each channel into four ohms.

I know the kappa's are good speakers. But they are also coaxials and I know that component speakers have to be better because I can place the tweeters wherever I want them, and the mid bass woofers are independent. There are probably much better crossover options available with components as well. Part of it is probably because I am just never willing to leave well enough alone ;-) Once I amp the kappa's, I will evaluate and see what happens....if they blow me away, I will keep them. I will be running the system with the kappas in the rear anyway at first, for budgetary reasons.

I see most on this forum so far have been against metal tweeters. I have been seriously considering the Boston Pro's, but don't they have metal tweeters? I would like to go with silk if possible.

Oh, and sedate........I am working on the ported box slowly. I decided to go with a slotted port and a 1.75 cubic foot box. I am cutting the pieces and should have it together pretty soon. I will throw it in as soon as it is sealed up and let you know how it sounds. I have been considering getting a second perfect and putting them both in slightly larger sealed enclosures as well, to increase the low end but retaining the tightness of the bass. So many things to do, so little time (and sometimes money).

One thing is for sure, I'm learning A LOT on this forum since I've been hanging around since January....I used to know nothing about car audio, and now I feel like I at least half way know what I'm talking about.  Thanks for the advice guys, I shudder to think that I would probably have to rely on the stooges at Best Buy or Circuit City for into without this forum.

2004 BMW 325ci.
Alpine CDA-9885
JL 300/4 and 250/1
JL XR 5.25 comps
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12
jdog0411 
Copper - Posts: 150
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 05, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 25, 2005 at 3:04 PM / IP Logged  
Oh, and for the record, I respect both Sedate's and Stevdart's opinions on this forum, regardless of number of posts. It is obvious to me that both of you know what your talking about. Besides, I dont' take any opinion as gospel, the more the merrier. That allows me to take knowledgable opinions and use the information to make an educated decision.
2004 BMW 325ci.
Alpine CDA-9885
JL 300/4 and 250/1
JL XR 5.25 comps
Infinity Kappa Perfect 12

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