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Need Advice on making this sound better


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deeve 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 12:22 PM / IP Logged  
I need some advice on improving the sound system in my 05 FordSupercrew. i have done a search and got some information, but would like advice on this setup. Something seems like it is lacking and would like to hear what the guru's out there have to say. I know very little about the techinical aspects of this stuff, so I apologize in advance if I butcher the terms here.
I picked up a Kenwood Excelon KDC-X689 CD/MP3 Receiver after looking at a bunch of different makes and models. I got that one because it had 3 pre-outs and aux in so I figuire I can upgrade it pretty easily and it's a good unit. I also got it because I like the look. ..kinda fits the interior I think. At the same time I picked up four Kicker 05KS68 6"x8" 2-Way Speakers. I got all of it from Crutchfield.
This may seem odd to some, but I used to have a Mustang MACH 1 (2004, not the old one) with the Mach 460 sound system and really liked the sound of it. I am looking to make the F150 similar to that. Nothing that will break windows, but something that will have good sound and bass.
Today I installed the head unit and put the new speakers in the front doors only. The rear is still stock and I do not have the factory sub. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was kinda anti-climatic. The volume seems weak and low with not much bass. I have messed with the "eq" type settings and it is a little cleaner sound, but I am looking for more.
WHat I would like is a fuller, clean "crisp" sound and bass at normal volumes that I can hear and feel..as opposed to just shaking the windows.
I am open to adding some more components in the future, which is why I got that headunt in the first place, but without going "whole hog" what could I do? I also have not opened one of the set of speakers, so I suppose I could return those and swap them out with something better if you all suggest.
Also, any good websites (besides this one)that I can learn more on the subject to help?
Thanks and Happy Holidays!
Dave
menace2sobriety 
Silver - Posts: 394
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 29, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 1:29 PM / IP Logged  
a sub even a small 8 inch can make a big impact, as long as the box is built right. i dont know alot about kicker equipment. so i cannot not say anything about your 6x8's but maybe they need a little more power to sound "right". as far as learning more do a search on this site and see what you can come up with.
geepherder 
Platinum - Posts: 3,668
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: October 27, 2003
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 2:21 PM / IP Logged  
It sounds to me you want some component speakers up front, as well as a small sub.  You'll need an amp for at least the sub, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to amp the fronts as well.  Give it some thought and figure what you're missing the most now- detail of component speakers, or the nice bottom end of a sub.  Save up and make the upgrades in steps until you're satisfied.
My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.
deeve 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 2:36 PM / IP Logged  
Kinda thinking I am missing both. geepherder, you mentioned powering the fronts with an amp...no need to power the rears?
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 3:50 PM / IP Logged  

Welcome to the forum. I think I may have directed you this way?

We all hear different, drive different vehicle and listen to different types of music. This means that every system is somewhat unique. What you are lacking right now is detail and depth in your music. This comes from assuming that the amp in the cd player is enough to power the system like your old Mach system did. In actuality, your new player will be struggling to reproduce 15watts of clean power. Take this a step at a time is the best thing to do.

As far as the speakers go, I prefer to listen to the speakers that I am buying. I have a well educated ear for speakers and can make recommendations for you to look at, but it is you who ultimately listen to them. If this is going to be a long term project, take it the step at a time. Each step you take will result in an improvement in tonal response.

I would send the one unopened set of speakers back and get yourself a 6.5" or 6x8" pointsource type speaker if you do not want to cut up the door panel to mount a separate tweeter. If you do not mind adding a separate tweeter, buy yourself some oversize 6.5" component speakers. You will need to make a abs mounting baffle to mount the mid onto that will in turn bolt to the factory mounting holes in the door.

Next add a amp. If you are not trying to blast yourself out of the vehicle, either buy a good 4 channel amplifier to power the front and sub (eventually) or use it to power the front and rears for now and expand to add a second amp when you add the sub. Powering the rear speakers off of the deck is a accepted practice that does a respectable job, it  is not however the way that I would do it long term.

The better bet here is to purchase a 5 channel amplifier that will run the entire system and use the cd player to it's full capabilities. Add the sub when the budget allows as you will more than likely be lookig for a highly specific sub and a custom box to house it.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
deeve 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 6:32 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the advice...You know my wifes 03 Expedition with the stock CD sounds better than what I have. I was thinking about it and I think hers is putting out 120 watts or something like that.
Anyway...my doors have a mounting point already for the tweeter, so I suppose I could put a component in there and link it to a 5 channel amp? It sounds like that would be a good way to start out. How hard would be be to build the mouting baffle for the 6.5?
Thanks
Dave
deeve 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 17, 2005 at 11:38 PM / IP Logged  
I decided my maine issue was not having an amp to deliver the kind of sound I want and picked up a MTX Thunder 895 five channel that should do me well for $200. I figuire I can put a sub on later if I want. I think anything is better than what I have. I am now searching for speakers for the doors. I am trying to decide if I want to go component or a 4 way like the Pionee rTS-A6880R or the Sony XS-V6841H. These two seem to be able to handle more power and have a better range of frequency than the components that I can afford...or want to afford anyway. Any opinions on those two?
Dave
oxygen65 
Silver - Posts: 252
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 19, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 18, 2005 at 4:07 AM / IP Logged  
the thing about the kicker 6x8's is that they are rated at a high level of wattage so if you are only putting 50 watts to them like most aftermarket HU do then it is not going to sound as good as if you had it hooked up to an amp that is going to put the full 150 or whatever they are rated at. if you want more bass there are a ton of diffrent things you could do, you can add a sub even a small 8 or 12 whatever you want it is really up to you how you want it to sound, i kno that kenwood has some great components that add a lot off bass from the stock HU, i put a pair in a 97 camaro and it sounded like he had 2 10's in that back of his car, and that was only from the fron doors and the rest was stock
deeve 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 09, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: December 18, 2005 at 11:15 AM / IP Logged  
Wow, I am learning a lot and feel like I am going in the right direction with all your help.
In looking at speaker specs what kind of numbers should I look for? I am refering to frequency response and RMS mostly. Since a lot has to do with the amp below are the specks for it. The Kickers I have (and still can swap for something different) are rated at 45-20,000 Hz and 5-45 watts RMS (90 watts peak power)with a 90db sensitiviy. AFter I decide on what I am looking for I figuire I will give some a listen. I want the "most bang for the buck"
Thanks!
THUNDER895
• RMS Power measured at 12.5 Volts DC:
35 Watts RMS/Ch x 4 into 4 Ohms with less than 1% Thd+N
70 Watts RMS/Ch x 4 into 2 Ohms with less than 1% Thd+N
140 Watts RMS bridged x 2 into 4 Ohms with less than
1% Thd+N
• Subwoofer:
160 Watts RMS into 4 Ohms with less than 1% Thd+N
320 Watts RMS into 2 Ohms with less than 1% Thd+N
• Dynamic Power measured at 14.4 Volts DC Front and Rear:
50 Watts x 4 into a 4 Ohm load
100 Watts x 4 into a 2 Ohm load
200 Watts bridged x 2 into a 4 Ohm load
• Subwoofer:
245 Watts x 1 into a 4 Ohm load
490 Watts x 1 into a 2 Ohm load
• Signal to Noise Ratio: ≥90dB A-Weighted
• Damping Factor: >100
• Frequency Response: (Front and Rear) 20Hz-20kHz
±0.25dB, (Subwoofer) 20Hz - 85Hz ±3dB
• Maximum Input: 2.5Vrms
• Thunder EQ: (Subwoofer) Variable Bass Boost (0-18dB)
centered at 40Hz
• Crossover: (Front and Rear) 85Hz, 18dB/Octave, High Pass
or Full Range (Subwoofer) 85Hz, 18dB/Octave, Low Pass
• Dimensions: 15.6" x 9.75" x 2.1" (39.7cm x 24.8cm x 5.3cm)
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: December 18, 2005 at 2:31 PM / IP Logged  

Take the spec sheet and put it up to your ear and tell me how it sounds, for the most part a spec sheet is a colaboration of troublemakers looking for a place to set up camp. Your amp is not a monster by any means but it is 100% better than trying to rely on the tiny amplifier in the cd player. It will have crossovers to keep the nasty bottom end that distorts speakers at bay. If they are used then it is adviseable to use a small sub of some kind, an 8" or 10" is more than enough to adequately "round out" the natural sound that is beyond the capabilities of the main speakers. More power in the amp would have been nice but let's work with what you have for now.

As far as the speakers go, ensure that you do this. Sound deaden those big metal gongs that are called doors, this will drastically improve the tonal response in the mid bass region. Next, if you have a mounting location for a factory tweeter up high in the door (usually in the sail panel - the panel that covers the bolts that mount the side mirrors), you definitely want component speakers. Again the oversize 6.5" is the ones that you want. To make a mounting adaptor is easy. Take the factory speaker , place it face down on a piece of paper and trace it out. Next take the new mid and center it onto the same piece of paper over the area that you just traced the factory speaker onto. You will notice that it protrudes over the sides of the factory speaker line. Trace the new speaker over that area. Cut out the paper. It should resemble the factory 6x8"  with a couple of bulges out the center area. This can now be used as a pattern to trace onto 1/4"abs. If this is beyond you, have a shop that works with plexiglass etc. or a car audio shop build them up for you. Yes it is work but it is well worth it. We charge about $50.00 CDN for this.

As far as the speakers themself go, the #1 most important speakers in the vehicle are the front speakers. Pour some $ into these speakers.  My recommendations here are the German MB Quart (not the Chinese ones), Focal, Eclipse, Morel and then we can look at the middle of the road speakers like Alpine, Kicker, Pioneer etc. The difference in tonal response is huge, get good speakers. At present if you are after some great speakers, the Focal 165V2 or 165V1 (a little more price sensitive) would be the far superior way to go. A note here, most speakers like this are not available at www.TrailerParkTerry'sDiscountAudioEmporiumandFleaMarket.com but they are found at a specialty retailer, so a little detective work is necessary. If you need help finding these speakers in your area, there are a number of use that can point you in the right direction. The best bang for the buck comes the hard way. 99% of customers who take this route find out later that they bought the wrong equipment. Save the time and headaches and purchase the proper pair of speakers the first time.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

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