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Differences in Line Output Converters


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GMC4x4Guy 
Copper - Posts: 117
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 28, 2002
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: February 12, 2006 at 10:29 PM / IP Logged  
Is there anyone that KNOWS that there is an audible difference in quality between different line output converters, besides adjustment? What are the problems with cheap converters?
I built my first fiberglass enclosure for my wifes vehicle after doing tons of research. It houses one Kicker Solo-baric 10 L5, and has an 200W digital Alpine amp running to it. The box is built with enough fiberglass, is fully sealed, has Polyfill, and is almost the exact recomended volume.
It seems to distort easily, and I'm not sure if it's because I used a cheap converter. We both want the rest of the system to stay stock, so changing out the factory amp or headunit is not an option. Also, the only choice I had was to tap in after the signals had been amplified by the factory amp, so this could be a problem also, but I don't know, though I'm sure I'm in the right place!
"Drive it like you stole it"
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: February 12, 2006 at 10:45 PM / IP Logged  

Sounds like a clipped signal.  Is the deck volume ever over the halfway mark?  Did you find the clipping point on the stock deck and use that level to set the amp gain (thus my reference to the halfway mark)?  What amp are you using to power the L5?

With LOC's, I know there are audible differences between brands/models of high quality LOC's, and that's with the benefit of adjusting for voltage input.  A cheap converter uses cheap components and is set to a standard ratio.  I like the Navone converters.  But your problem may very well lie somewhere else.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
GMC4x4Guy 
Copper - Posts: 117
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 28, 2002
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: February 13, 2006 at 8:51 AM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the reply.
The deck volume is always pretty low, or at least below the halfway mark. I agree that it does sound like it's clipping. On the Alpine amp I have (MRD-300, I think) there is only three adjustments for gain (not the normal voltage adjustments either), -18db, -12db, -6db and 0db, and I've tried them all without the "overload" light coming on. Everytime I adjusted the amp, I did so with the volume down because of the distortion. Do you think I need to turn it up when making this adjustment, even with the distortion?
This particular amp has a high-level input connector, but I didn't get the plug to make it work.
Thanks again.
"Drive it like you stole it"
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: February 13, 2006 at 9:03 AM / IP Logged  

The amp will have only one adjustment for gain per channel.  It's probably labelled "input sensitivity" or something of the like.  What you described are the choices in crossover settings.

The high level input built into an amp is generally same as a cheap aftermarket unit.  Continue to leave it out of the picture and move up to a high quality converter.

Volume levels cannot be low for setting gains.  You can find several good descriptive posts on proper gain setting HERE.  I have written some of those myself and you'll find some that include an LOC in the description.  Test tones are crucial for this and you'll find links for those as well.

The manual for the MRD-M300 mono amp is online HERE.  Gain should be mode 1, input mode.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
GMC4x4Guy 
Copper - Posts: 117
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 28, 2002
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: February 13, 2006 at 1:18 PM / IP Logged  
I couldn't get the manual page to load, but I know I was in mode 1 when I was adjusting the gain. But like I said, I think they label the gain adjustment funny (in db's).
I'll read your posts and try readjustment. Thanks for the help.
By the way, Is it OK to use an amplified signal as an input for the LOC's? Isn't that like amplifying it twice?
"Drive it like you stole it"
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
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Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: February 13, 2006 at 1:33 PM / IP Logged  

This depends on the LOC that is used. If you are feeding too "hot" of a signal into the LOC and it was not designed for it, this will manifest itself as a problem with levels. I hate basic LOC's, even brand name ones. They generally do a piss poor job of signal matching for the most part and unless you pay the man for a premium one, you cannot use them with the majority of amplified systems as they cannot take the increase in input signal. If you have a LOC that has a adjustment to the input and output sections, this is great, provided that the LOC can take the "hot" signal coming in. My advice is to ditch the LOC all together. Use the Audio Control LC6 + bass remote and save your money, use ING Direct....make that it will allow you to use your system properly in a manner that you cannot use it right now. It is a highly advanced LOC that will give you a signal input of any type, high or low level, a line driver (something that basic LOC's do not have), a noise killer circuit (another thing that most LOC's do not have), a remote on output trigger (yet another thing that most LOC's do not have), gives a front / rear / subwoofer preout for future expansion (buy additional LOC's to do the same) + it finally adds a dash mounted indipendent level control strictly for the sub (another thing a LOC does not have). This allows you to tailer the sub to the specific song you are playing indipendent of the master volume control with no more adjusting the bass control on the deck to try and compensate.

www.audiocontrol.com

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
GMC4x4Guy 
Copper - Posts: 117
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 28, 2002
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: February 13, 2006 at 11:48 PM / IP Logged  
Well I'll be damned, it worked! I haven't fine tuned it yet, but raising the volume to set the gain "unclipped" the signal. I'll have to get out the multimeter and readjust, but just changing the volume level up while setting the gain helped a bunch. I still have to read the gain posts though. The amp does use db's for the gain, but the instruction manual lists input voltages that fall into each range, though fine adjustment isn't really possible.
Right now, it sounds like it's probably close to the amount of bass I'm gonna get out of one 10 with 200W in a sealed box. I may change the LOC anyway, just because the one that's in there cost about $3, so there's probably more to gain out of my setup.
Thanks a ton! I've been clipping that amp for about a year now.
"Drive it like you stole it"

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