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Too Little Power


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willdkartunes 
Copper - Posts: 250
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 01, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: March 13, 2006 at 4:18 PM / IP Logged  

That was my fault. I know for a fact that is really confusing what I said. After reading what I wrote it did sound like I was then arguing the fact on whether a speaker can be blown on too much power. There is no way I would argue this fact as I know that a loudspeaker can definitely blow on too much power.

As for the too little power, I believe I stated that perfectly in my last post. I should have left the end part out because that statement just caused confusion and shouldn't have been in there.

Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Velocity Motors 
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Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: March 21, 2006 at 4:27 PM / IP Logged  
Adding links:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/lowpower.pdf
http://www.eaw.com/support/pdf/AmplifierPower.pdf
http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
pumpkinman 
Member - Posts: 7
Member spacespace
Joined: March 19, 2009
Location: New York, United States
Posted: March 19, 2009 at 9:54 PM / IP Logged  
well after reading all the post.i still am yet to beleave underpowering can blow a speaker.if this is true,then everytime i turn my system down it must be underpowering.So my personal opinion is if everytime you turned your system down you would blow your speakers being underpowerd ! which i have never hurt a sub by keeping it at a low volume.. so if underpowering is blowing subs shouldnt they blow everytime you turn your system down..?
jl-audio13w7 2 12.2 orion hccas.. massive p1500.1 amp.. american base amp 400.1 spl.. crunch 3000 pro amp..2 jl-audio 15w4d4s subs
flogger11 
Member - Posts: 31
Member spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2009
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Posted: March 22, 2009 at 10:47 AM / IP Logged  

pumpkinman wrote:
well after reading all the post.i still am yet to beleave underpowering can blow a speaker.if this is true,then everytime i turn my system down it must be underpowering.So my personal opinion is if everytime you turned your system down you would blow your speakers being underpowerd ! which i have never hurt a sub by keeping it at a low volume.. so if underpowering is blowing subs shouldnt they blow everytime you turn your system down..?

Underpowered = running your amp wide open = A clipped sine wave (signal) = DC power to the speaker = No control, excessive heat build up = failure. END OF DISCUSSION.

Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 28, 2009 at 11:46 PM / IP Logged  
sic audio wrote:
When you clip an amp you not only increase distortion, you also compress the dynamic range of the signal... the distortion isn't what kills the speakers (except tweeters in some cases)... it's the dynamic range compression that really does it.
so it is in fact possible to blow a speaker or sub with too little power
How would that situation be too little power?
violentmouse 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spacespace
Joined: April 15, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2009 at 1:52 AM / IP Logged  
yeah i know "old" thread, but I felt I had to get my two cents =o)
when you have a sub that is rated at 500 watts RMS that means it can handle 500 watts max for a sustained period which means your sub has a good operational range from 1/8th of that margin. so if you hooked a 1995 model year pioneer solid state 75 watt amp to the above said subwoofer, when the amp did eventually clip your amps output signal becomes spurts of direct current rather than a smooth flow of alternating current, these short pulses of direct current would eventually heat up the voice coils 26 awg windings until the glues seperating them melted or even the windings themselves melted causing a speaker that has impaired performance. You might not EVER notice this but it can and does happen all the time. When I was a kid we used to "Rebuild" subs and the majority of our rebuilds were from people who had huge subs and tiny amps. remember a voice coil is an electromagnetic winding and therefor generates heat, it IS a resistor and resistance always generates heat, when you give a resistor a lot of direct current it will pop, but if you give that same resistor clean smooth waveforms it will last a bit longer =o)
i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,250
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Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: September 23, 2009 at 6:16 PM / IP Logged  

From some of these posts, I am gathering that when an amp clips, it sends DC voltage to a voice coil.  When the DC voltage gets to the coil, it must stop moving all together and burn up the coil.  I was under the impression that when an amp clips it has 2 points that the clipping is visible, one on the positive side of the waveform, and one on the negative side of the waveform.  So with a 25 WPC amplifier clipped as hard as it can be played, which of the DC voltages is damaging the speaker?   Is it the +10 volts, or is it the -10 volts?  If the amp is clipping, and the input signal is an AC voltage, how does it go from +10 to -10 without moving the cone of the woofer?  Oh wait it can't do that.  The cone of the woofer is still moving, so it is still cooling.  Clipping a small amp as severely as possible will not damage a woofer.  Unless the power handling rating of the woofer is exceeded.  The DC theory will only destroy a speaker if it is either a positive or a negative DC.  If you clip an amp, the speaker is still moving.  A moving speaker is a happy speaker.

haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: October 25, 2009 at 3:28 AM / IP Logged  
flogger11 wrote:

pumpkinman wrote:
well after reading all the post.i still am yet to beleave underpowering can blow a speaker.if this is true,then everytime i turn my system down it must be underpowering.So my personal opinion is if everytime you turned your system down you would blow your speakers being underpowerd ! which i have never hurt a sub by keeping it at a low volume.. so if underpowering is blowing subs shouldnt they blow everytime you turn your system down..?
Underpowered = running your amp wide open = A clipped sine wave (signal) = DC power to the speaker = No control, excessive heat build up = failure. END OF DISCUSSION.
The end of the discussion was LONG ago. You have scratched a healing wound wide open with your COMPLETELY incorrect assertion and "end". From your "assertion", I am going to gather that you didn't even bother to read even a single word that was posted till now...
Here's your END OF DISCUSSION: You are absolutely, completely, totally, and in all other ways, WRONG.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
1967type-1 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: November 06, 2009
Location: Maryland, United States
Posted: November 06, 2009 at 10:21 PM / IP Logged  

As a former installer who recieved factory training from both Kicker and JL Audio Techs,I was taught"too much power blows mids and highs,distortion blows subs".If you give a 250 watt (rms) rated sub,500 rms watts of undistorted signal it will play perfectly fine.But if you give the same sub 200 rms watts of a distorted (clipped) signal you are very likely to fry the voice coil.Basically from heat and the non linear movement of the speakers cone,wich causes the voice coil to move out of the magnetic gap it floats in and possibly causing it to touch the walls of the motor structure because of the non linear movement.Also the coating on the windings of the voice coil will get hot enough to bubble.This causes the sceatching sound you sometimes hear if you push the cone of a blown sub.In extreme cases it will bubble enough to make it swell enough to lock the voice coil in the gap.You may have seen this in a blown sub where you push on the spesker cone and it doesn't move in or out.Our Kicker Tech had a 12" Comp VL that was sent in and thet cut the speaker in half right through the motor structure basket cone spyder etc. so we could see the damage he was talking about.I personally have had subs come back to the shop blown,and the customer is saying how could I blow a 500 watt speaker with a 300 watt amp? The first thing I would check is where the gain was on their amp.Usuall it would be all the way up.I would try and explain to them that the gain is not a "rear volume controler" I also noticed it was easier to blow subs in a bandpass box than in sealed enclosures.Someone else mentioned in a comment about blowing subs from hard bottoming.I was taught that if your sub was bottoming out (voice coil hitting the bottom of the motor structure),then your box has a leak in it.A well sealed enclosure can't bottom out because the air inside the box becomes part of the suspension system helping to control cone motion.Limiting cone movement and preventing the voice coil from such extreme linear movement.Also most subs have bumped out back plates on the pole and magnet to help prevent it even more.

(o\_|_/o)
67 Volkswagen Type-1 {Beetle}
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i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,250
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: November 06, 2009 at 10:42 PM / IP Logged  
Uh-Oh
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