stealth panel and sound limitation?

I have a 2003 Audi A4. A few days ago, I had a system installed at a local shop. I had 2 12W3v3's installed along with a 500/1 amp. I originally asked for the install to look like the picture below (discluding the amp racks on the sides). So, basically, a panel that covers the box and sits flush with the back of the trunk so that it looks like the subs are kind of built into a wall. I wanted it to look clean and just not look like I have a box just sitting back in the trunk. Nothing too fancy... However, when I came to pick the car up, he did a sort of "stealth" panel. He didn't cut out any holes on the panel at all and it just covered up the box behind it and made it look like there was nothing there but the back of the trunk. Which, I thought might be kind of cool not being able to see the subs and it gave it a very clean appearance. The panel is mounted to the box by being drilled into 3 pieces of wood that are drilled into the the front of the sub box that are about 1" thick. Here is my problem: Yesterday when I was cleaning the car out, I figured I wanted to take a look at the subs. I mean, I bought them, and have yet to actually see them. I like looking at subs for some reason... Anyway, I removed the 4 screws and pulled the panel back and looked at the subs... They're wonderful looking. I didn't put the panel back on for a while and drove my car back home. During the drive home, the bass from the subs felt A LOT more full and even seemed louder. I got curious... So, I did a little experiment... I got my drill and pulled into a vacant parking lot. Cranked up the subs on a song with a great bass line that was consistent throughout the track. I started with the panel off. Listened for a minute, then, ran back to the trunk, drilled it back into place and went back and sat down. I noticed a clear difference. I did this like 8 times, literally... Just to make sure that I wasn't playing mind games with myself somehow. It was a lot more full sounding. It seemed to fill the cabin up more with the panel off. So, I called the place that installed the panel. He immediately said "That would not matter. The panel is not keeping any sound from coming into the cabin". I asked "would it make the bass sound more full if it had the entire trunk to bounce around off of instead of having a thick piece of carpeted MDF directly in front of it which would cause vibration and even maybe some sort of absorbing of the sound?" and he said "Not at all". I even asked "Is it possible I just think that it's louder and I'm tricking myself into thinking that?" and he said "I'm not sure, but there should be no difference with the sound in the cabin. It will be louder in the trunk, but not in the cabin." My question to anyone here is, does that sound right? I'm very sure the sound was more full and generally sounded like 2 12's should sound. With the panel on, the sound was a little more "tight" or muffled sounding and not as full.   If I'm in some way correct, should the panel be removed completely for this sound, or would it be fine to actually have someone do it the way I wanted it originally (in the picture above) or would that muffle the sound as well?

Trust your ears. If that is the install you wanted and you provided them with this pic, then take it back and have it re-done. I am sure it would make a differnce on how things sound.

xtremej wrote: Trust your ears. If that is the install you wanted and you provided them with this pic, then take it back and have it re-done. I am sure it would make a differnce on how things sound.

I showed him the picture a few days before the actual install to see if he could do it and how much it would cost. Then, I noticed on the final receipt it said "Stealth panel"... Which, I knew wasn't what I wanted. However, when I saw it, I thought it looked good. It was clean looking. But, yeah... I showed him the picture so I could get an good estimate on how much the install would cost. I just think the installed saw "Stealth Panel" on the work order and did what he thought was a stealth panel. When I called the installer, he said that he could cut out a large section on the panel that basically went around both subs, but that kind of defeats the purpose of that entire panel, I think... I might as well take it out all together. However, that means I just wasted $100 on a carpeted panel that does nothing. I guess I can just turn my donut holeness on if they refuse to do it correctly... However, I feel that since I accepted the work when it was done and drove off, it's somewhat my fault as well. However, I liked how it looked... I'm just not happy with how it sounds with that panel on.

You are absolutely right in the fact that the sound in trunk will be louder without a panel/thick cover. However the shop has a point as well. The sound in the cabin would be coming directly from the rear of the speakers (as I understand the speakers are mounted on a "wall"). As extremej pointed out, do what you like best to hear. Ultimately it is your car, your money and your ears. The shop has to give you your money's worth and satisfy you since they are being paid to do so. Can you post some pictures for us to see?

markcars wrote: You are absolutely right in the fact that the sound in trunk will be louder without a panel/thick cover. However the shop has a point as well. The sound in the cabin would be coming directly from the rear of the speakers (as I understand the speakers are mounted on a "wall"). As extremej pointed out, do what you like best to hear. Ultimately it is your car, your money and your ears. The shop has to give you your money's worth and satisfy you since they are being paid to do so.

I'm not saying the sound in the trunk was louder. The installer said that the sound in the trunk would be louder, but not in the cabin. I'm saying it was louder in cabin as well. The speakers aren't mounted on a wall. They're in a regular sealed inclosure with a piece of carpeted MDF drilled into the front of the box (with about 1" of space between it and the subs).

Without a panel on the front of the speaker, the front would be having no hindrance, so the sound there would surely be louder in the front of the speakers (inside the trunk). The rear of the speakers has no change therefore there shouldnt be an increase from the rear of the speakers. However, part of the reflected sound from the front(inside the trunk) finally would also reach the cabin adding to the volume. So the overall sound would feel louder in the cabin as well but not as much increase as inside the trunk. Seems like the installer isn't talking about net result of sound, but direct sound from front and direct sound from rear of the speakers. If you look at each of your points of view, both are correct.

markcars wrote: Without a panel on the front of the speaker, the front would be having no hindrance, so the sound there would surely be louder in the front of the speakers (inside the trunk). The rear of the speakers has no change therefore there shouldnt be an increase from the rear of the speakers. However, part of the reflected sound from the front(inside the trunk) finally would also reach the cabin adding to the volume. So the overall sound would feel louder in the cabin as well but not as much increase as inside the trunk. Seems like the installer isn't talking about net result of sound, but direct sound from front and direct sound from rear of the speakers. If you look at each of your points of view, both are correct.

So, in other words, having a 1/4" piece of MDF attached directly in front of the subs will not cause any sound problems, muffling or anything in the cabin area? Not to cause an argument or anything, but my question is, how come it sounds much fuller in the cabin area with the panel not in front of the speakers? The bass sounds cleaner, fuller and not as muffled with that panel off. I noticed that the actual panel rattles a lot when it's on. Could that be part of the problem?

I talked to him again and he said he's willing to cut out two circles on the panel and put the grilles on the speakers for protection. I just have to pay for the grilles, so, I guess I'm just going to do that and see how it works out...

I don't know why anyone would cover up the front of the subs. You would surely lose any sound from the front of the subs if you cover them up, especially with a 1/4 inch thick MDF. Unless you are creating a ported bandpass subwoofer box, I wonder why the front of the speaker should be covered up. Glad to hear you are getting holes cutout and grills are definitely a saver for subs. I would have destroyed my Focal Utopia 27wx sub a few weeks ago had it not been for the grill on the front, which got bent out of shape due to something I purhased from home depot. My sub got saved with the grill. I cannot afford to buy that sub again.

markcars wrote: I don't know why anyone would cover up the front of the subs. You would surely lose any sound from the front of the subs if you cover them up, especially with a 1/4 inch thick MDF. Unless you are creating a ported bandpass subwoofer box, I wonder why the front of the speaker should be covered up. Glad to hear you are getting holes cutout and grills are definitely a saver for subs. I would have destroyed my Focal Utopia 27wx sub a few weeks ago had it not been for the grill on the front, which got bent out of shape due to something I purhased from home depot. My sub got saved with the grill. I cannot afford to buy that sub again.

He covered them up because he thought I wanted a "stealth" look. Which, I didn't... The salesman screwed that up. Even still, I've had a stealth box before and the MDF panel that was in front of it at least had large 1/2" holes drilled out around where the speaker was and then carpet laid over that...