advice needed re botched shop job

I took my 1994 Toyota Pickup into a local shop to have a Viper 350HV alarm installed. I would have done it myself but I wasn't entirely confident and I wanted a clean, professional install. The total install bill came to $309 and change, Canadian dollars. Once I got it home, I noticed a few problems: - electrcial tape on every connection; I would have thought a pro shop would use heat shrink. After reading some more threads here, though, I see tape is considered an acceptable method. - instead of the blue LED and separate valet button, they gave me a combination red LED/valet button. No sign of the parts that came with the unit. - my two remotes are different, and one has gouges in the plastic as if someone had lamely tried to change the battery. I'm pretty sure it's used. - the remotes weren't programmed properly; I had to program them myself to get aux or panic to work. - I didn't get a box, or a warranty card, or a work order, or anything except a receipt for my payment. Hell, they even had to print me a copy of the PDF owner's manual because "someone must have taken it out of the box." - They tied into the wrong wire for the parking lights; good thing they fused the output from the brain cause it's tied into a ground in the windshield wiper circuits (the fuse has since blown obviously). When I picked up the truck I specifically asked "and the parking lights flash?", and the installer said "definitely." He must not have tested his own work. - the brain is mounted with screws to the firewall. The install manual specifically says 'do not mount the brain with screws as the shock sensor will not work properly.' Fancy that, the shock sensor doesn't work 99% of the time - you'd have to smash the truck with a brick to get it to even warn away. What I gather from all this is that the shop pieced together an alarm from parts they had lying around (they refused to give me the box at all, probably because they didn't have one), did a crappy job on the install, and to top it all off they broke the plastic bug deflector on the hood and then said it was broken when they pulled it into the bay! So, what should I do? Should I take the alarm out, take everything back, and demand a full refund? For that money I could have a 2-way with remote start off eBay or somewhere. Should I just demand a refund on the install fee, since I have to fix most of it anyways? Should I just chalk it up to a lesson learned, fix it all, and resolve to never let anyone touch my truck again? Should I demand a new unit in a sealed box? Sorry for the long rant, but I'm really interested to hear what you guys think about this. I really doubt they'll give me my money back if I pull the alarm myself, but there's no way in hell they're getting near my vehicle again. More cracks on the bug deflector would look even worse! Thanks for any advice, Isaac

Oh, also, I forgot to mention that this particular shop doesn't appear on DEI's dealer locator so the warranty is probably void either way, whether I can get them to cough up the required paperwork or not.

I would suggest that you address your concerns to the owner of the shop. If you speak to him in a polite manner and list all of your concerns, I would hope that he will have them dealt with. Simply state what you have in your posting here and gauge his response. If he/she gives you the run around then ask for your money back as you are not happy. Unless the shop either has a sign up indicating "no refunds" or you have signed anythng detailing this, they have to give you your money back. Use this as a last resort to prevent them from getting very defensive. Ideally speak to the owner in the prescence of other customers. They won't want to lose more customers if they treat you lousy. Good Luck.sparky

Hi, I install for a living, so I'll chime in with my opinion. --In order to put shrink tape on the connections, you would have to first cut the Toyota's wire in half to slide the shrink tubing over it........and if you do that, and the connection should somehow fail, the car would probably be stranded. I would prefer that if something does go wrong at all, it's simply the alarm's wire coming loose......the car still be driven until it is fixed. But yeah, a neat, careful, tight wrap with a good-quality tape is considered standard procedure. I then wrap a couple zip-ties around the entire bundle for neatness and strain-releif. --Sometimes the pictures on the box are badly outdated. I think all the DEI stuff uses a combination LED/valet switch now. Still, if you were my customer and you were that fussy about it, I'd try to see if I could find the parts you wanted, to make you happy. NOTE: The new LED/switch combo uses a bigger (5'16") than the old LED (9/ 32"). Maybe the LED could be glued to stay in the oversize hole, but likely the entire panel will have to be replaced. At this point, it might be more trouble than it's worth. --Yeah, sounds like you've got it right...they probably didn't have enough inventory, and were scrounging around to make a complete unit. I've done that too, but I try not to give customers used remotes! It's also possible the installer didn't notice it was used. Go back, bring it to their attention, and hopefully they'll immediately fix this. But maybe call first, so they can make sure they actually have the right remote in stock. --Normally the customer doesn't want the box, and where I work, we'd cover the warranty in-house, so that wouldn't be an issue........still, you should get an owner's manual no matter what.......and I find it troubling that they didn't at least have one laying around somewhere. Regardless, as far as the warranty, the brain itself is unlikely to ever break....... it's more the install job that is possible to fail, or the remotes themselves. And DEI only warranties their remotes for a little while, which I think is lousy. The warranty card won't do you any good when a wire comes loose. It'll be up to the shop to do that........ask them how long the installation work is guaranteed for. --Yeah, mistakes get made, like the wrong parking light wire. I make plenty of mistakes! But like you said, they should test the system's functions, and correct any errors before returning the car to the customer. I HATE it when people don't check their work! --I never even thought about that, with the alarms with the internal shock sensor. I'm not surprised they failed to think about that too....although yeah, they should have read the manual. Also, in my experience, if the shock sensor is adjusted so that it actually works, customers get upset. I usually only turn it up high if they request it. Regardless, it should be a simple matter for them to unscrew the brain, zip-tie it to something else, and re-adjust the shock sensor. ------------------------------- Other comments: --You should bring all of the flaws to the shop's attention. If they are a good shop with good people, they'll be happy to fix their mistakes, and they'll want to make you happy. All professionals make mistakes; it's how they handle the situation that matters. If they tell you to get lost, then you have a problem. If you paid with a credit card, see if the credit card issuer will help you. --About the broken bug deflector......did they inspect the car before working on it, and inform you of all the existing damage to the car, and maybe have you sign for it? If not, it's their own stupidity. Just tell them that you would have understood if they'd informed you ahead of time, but they didn't. --If you decide to fix the install yourself, do that only as a last resort. Once the customer messes with it, they're not going to warranty anything anymore. --In general, most shops don't refund labor, even if you do return the product. However, if the shop fails to listen to your concerns or resolve the problems, you might be able to pressure them into removing the product, refunding all your money, and you go away............. but if they are smart, they'll only do that as a last resort. All in all.............sorry to hear that they botched a few things on your car. But if they're decent people, and you bring it to their attention in a civilized manner, hopefully they'll be glad to fix it.......no need yet to start screaming at them or tearing the alarm out. If they tell you to take a hike, then consider screaming, but not before.

Chris Luongo wrote: Hi, I install for a living, so I'll chime in with my opinion. --In order to put shrink tape on the connections, you would have to first cut the Toyota's wire in half to slide the shrink tubing over it........and if you do that, and the connection should somehow fail, the car would probably be stranded. I would prefer that if something does go wrong at all, it's simply the alarm's wire coming loose......the car still be driven until it is fixed. But yeah, a neat, careful, tight wrap with a good-quality tape is considered standard procedure. I then wrap a couple zip-ties around the entire bundle for neatness and strain-releif. --Sometimes the pictures on the box are badly outdated. I think all the DEI stuff uses a combination LED/valet switch now. Still, if you were my customer and you were that fussy about it, I'd try to see if I could find the parts you wanted, to make you happy. NOTE: The new LED/switch combo uses a bigger (5'16") than the old LED (9/ 32"). Maybe the LED could be glued to stay in the oversize hole, but likely the entire panel will have to be replaced. At this point, it might be more trouble than it's worth.

I didn't consider that DEI might be packaging a different part with their units now. I was going by the manual, which mentions a blue LED. I'm not really that bothered, although having the valet switch builtin to the LED makes it easy for a knowledgeable junkie to disarm without a remote..

Chris Luongo wrote: --Yeah, sounds like you've got it right...they probably didn't have enough inventory, and were scrounging around to make a complete unit. I've done that too, but I try not to give customers used remotes! It's also possible the installer didn't notice it was used. Go back, bring it to their attention, and hopefully they'll immediately fix this. But maybe call first, so they can make sure they actually have the right remote in stock. --Normally the customer doesn't want the box, and where I work, we'd cover the warranty in-house, so that wouldn't be an issue........still, you should get an owner's manual no matter what.......and I find it troubling that they didn't at least have one laying around somewhere.

Normally I wouldn't want the box, either, which is why I didn't press it when they told me the installer had already thrown it out (why he couldn't retrieve it from the trash is beyond me).. but it just adds to the overall picture now that I've seen everything else.

Chris Luongo wrote: Regardless, as far as the warranty, the brain itself is unlikely to ever break....... it's more the install job that is possible to fail, or the remotes themselves. And DEI only warranties their remotes for a little while, which I think is lousy. The warranty card won't do you any good when a wire comes loose. It'll be up to the shop to do that........ask them how long the installation work is guaranteed for. --Yeah, mistakes get made, like the wrong parking light wire. I make plenty of mistakes! But like you said, they should test the system's functions, and correct any errors before returning the car to the customer. I HATE it when people don't check their work! --I never even thought about that, with the alarms with the internal shock sensor. I'm not surprised they failed to think about that too....although yeah, they should have read the manual. Also, in my experience, if the shock sensor is adjusted so that it actually works, customers get upset. I usually only turn it up high if they request it. Regardless, it should be a simple matter for them to unscrew the brain, zip-tie it to something else, and re-adjust the shock sensor.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear, another pro installer's opinion. Maybe there's a reason they mounted it that way, whether it's so it doesn't trigger with every falling leaf, or they simply didn't consider it.

Chris Luongo wrote: ------------------------------- Other comments: --You should bring all of the flaws to the shop's attention. If they are a good shop with good people, they'll be happy to fix their mistakes, and they'll want to make you happy. All professionals make mistakes; it's how they handle the situation that matters. If they tell you to get lost, then you have a problem. If you paid with a credit card, see if the credit card issuer will help you.

Whether or not I decide to fix it myself, I will definitely talk to the manager. I'm not into yelling and bitching at people to get what I want; I'll let him know my concerns, and if he agrees to do something about it, then great. If he balks then I'll get out of there and fix it myself. For what it's worth I've never heard a single bad thing about this shop before, while I've heard lots of good things, so I'd be surprised if they won't help.

Chris Luongo wrote: --About the broken bug deflector......did they inspect the car before working on it, and inform you of all the existing damage to the car, and maybe have you sign for it? If not, it's their own stupidity. Just tell them that you would have understood if they'd informed you ahead of time, but they didn't.

When I came back into the shop (30 seconds after picking up the keys) and pointed it out, the service writer went to talk to the tech, who said it was done when he pulled it in but he figured I knew so he didn't bother to write it down. That was that. The service writer said he'd make sure the tech wrote that kind of thing down in the future. I can see how he'd not bother writing it down if it were already there.. but I noticed it within ten seconds of getting the truck back. Wouldn't I have noticed it on the 20 minute drive there before the appointment? Anyways, it's not that big a deal, I guess.

Chris Luongo wrote: --If you decide to fix the install yourself, do that only as a last resort. Once the customer messes with it, they're not going to warranty anything anymore. --In general, most shops don't refund labor, even if you do return the product. However, if the shop fails to listen to your concerns or resolve the problems, you might be able to pressure them into removing the product, refunding all your money, and you go away............. but if they are smart, they'll only do that as a last resort. All in all.............sorry to hear that they botched a few things on your car. But if they're decent people, and you bring it to their attention in a civilized manner, hopefully they'll be glad to fix it.......no need yet to start screaming at them or tearing the alarm out. If they tell you to take a hike, then consider screaming, but not before.

Screaming won't help anyone ;) Thanks for the opinions. I definitely have a few more viewpoints now, and it seems a lot of the problems can be easily explained. Honestly, if the warranty is already gone, and the brain is pretty reliable, I bet there's not much else that can go wrong. I'll call them tomorrow and failing some amazing deal I'll just fix it myself to save the time and hassle of driving all the way over there. Thanks a lot! Isaac