master5 wrote:
| You mentioned distortion, Now I play electric guitar in a rock band as use alot of loud distortion, I am also tuned a step and a half down from conventional tuning to C#, adding quite a bit of bottom end. As far as achieving distortion I know that effects products produce this, and some players overdrive the preamp signal to accomplish this. I have done it both ways but prefer a floor pedal (the good ol' fuzz box). |
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This type of distortion will NOT destroy a speaker,
in and of itself. As long as the mechanical and electrical power handling capabilities of the speaker are not exceeded, the speaker can take 100% distortion all day long, and it will never be damaged! As DYohn mentioned earlier though, added distortion, whether desired or undesired, will hide possible overpowering situations, so additional care is required in the matchiing of amplifier to driver.
master5 wrote:
| Now this distortion effect is something I desire. The literal definition of distortion is any UNWANTED audio or change in wave form. Is it fair to compare a sound I desire to something defined as "unwanted"? I am just asking, not really trying to make a point. |
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I would have to disagree about your defnition of distortion... Distortion would be ANY deviation from "faithful reproduction", whether desired or otherwise. Even if you ADD it, it is still a destruction of the original sine wave actually produced by the plucking of the guitar string.
master5 wrote:
| Also the distortion as you described will not blow a speaker or as you say the speakers in my guitar cabinet would keep blowing if distortion was bad for them. (actually I have blown many but I know it was my fault). Fair enough. And you also state this is not clipping or that clipping is not distortion. So can I take from that statement that distortion can NEVER toast a speaker? And is the "desired" warm distorted tone, note, chord etc. I create and send to the amps input literally the same kind of distortion that is created by the amp (output) (a byproduct of amplification) for whatever reason (be it a bad speaker, a bad amp, or simply cranking the dickkins out of the volume until it sounds horrendous)? Or do amplifiers never produce thier own distortion on the output side? Oops. ignore that one , we know it does because it is part of the specs (thd in %). Is this spec only there to help predict tonal or harmonic sound characteristics or is it in any way a danger to a speaker? Or, am I totally off track? |
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I cannot tell you what distortion is placed ON the signal by (for example) the fuzz box. If it is actually clipped off, then I believe this could possibly damage a loudspeaker, simply by virtue of the CONTINUOUS power increasing, due to the rules applied by Ohm's Law. Again, if this continuous power increases to the point of exceeding the capacity of the driver, then it will of course, damage the driver, eventually. Other forms of distortion, however, and again, as long as the continuous power rating of the driver is NEVER exceeded, can not, in and of themselves, damage the driver. The distortion rating of an amplifier is simply there to inform the user how much the input waveform will be damaged by this particular stage of the signal chain.
master5 wrote:
| I think I get the point that you could operate basically any sub with an amp of lesser rated power without damaging it, I never doubted that as it is proposterous (spelling?) as a matter of fact most of the replys state it is "impossible" to blow one this way. But how can I use the word "impossible" when it is also stated that "unless you drive it so hard it produces large amounts of power and clips? I think thats what I am understanding most of you mean. So with that you can't really say "impossible" but you can say it can happen. Am I right? |
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If you read my examples from my previous post again, I gave you possible options at different "rated" power capacities... Read on further...
master5 wrote:
| I could set up tests using different amps, subs, enclosure types and take spl readings, power in/out readings and then see over time the results. But I think what would happen is at reasonable listening levels the subs and amps will play fine, theroetically forever until something naturally wears out. But lets say (extremes) I put a 20 watt amp (I actually have some of those from back in the day when many decks came without internal amps) to a 500w rms sub. Is it my understanding that this can NEVER blow the sub, or is it theoretically possible that it can? |
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An honestly rated 20 watt amp
couldn't blow a 500 watt woofer... it simply can't. Even at 3 times it's rated output capability, at 100% clipped output (actually, mathematically 2X the rated power i.e. 1.414 times the RMS voltage X 1.414 times the RMS current = 1.999 times the RMS power of the real world honestly rated 20 watts, so 40 watts) 40 watts could NEVER EVER electrically damage a 500 watt woofer. Again, it simply can't happen! There isn't enough power.
master5 wrote:
| And if I put a 500 watt rms amp on the same sub, it would play louder and not blow,( at moderate to high levels) but I could still blow it if I play it too loud for too long or (clip) the signal. |
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Yes, for the same reasons above.
master5 wrote:
| And if I use a 750watt rms amp, can I expect (in theory) to be able to get more volume without damage, or will the sub be destroyed if I try over time, regardless of volume level/enclosure quailty? And if the speaker is destroyed from this is it from clipping, or would it be difficult to clip an amp that has a higher rms power rating then the speaker? Can anything other then clipping (or taking a hammer to it)destroy a speaker or am I totally on the wrong track here too? |
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You will likely hear mechanical stresses before you damage the driver - i.e. "banging against the stops", especially in a vented enclosure, and even worse complaining in a poorly tuned vented enclosure. A sealed enclosure will not likely complain loud enough to alert the user, so electrical destruction will happen, especially if the user likes it loud.
master5 wrote:
| Or does it come down to the sub/enclosure combination alone as the main factor that affects powerhandling? |
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Mechanical power handling, yes. Electrical power handling is not affected by the enclosure.
master5 wrote:
| Does anyone have the patience to answer the above questions on by one,? It would really make me a happy camper to put closure to this topic, as I am more then sure ya'll feel the same way. |
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I hope I have shed some more light on this for you, master5.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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Anyway, many times we project previous knowledge on something and form conclusions without fully knowing the whole truth about the subject. Sometimes the simple conclusions we come to could be a false. I've even seen a very prominent car audio figure guilty of this durring a debate over whether Mms effects transient response. He proposed an analogy of a go-cart to prove his position, stating the extra weight will slow it down. However he forgot that speakers don't just move one direction, they also come back, and that the extra weight doesn't slow the response down, but just limits the total distance (mass effects efficiency, not the response time).
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