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markb 
Member - Posts: 43
Member spacespace
Joined: May 09, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 22, 2003 at 2:36 PM / IP Logged  
Installed a AST ultrastart 1250 in a '99 Grand Am. When I was done it worked perfect. Then I got a call from the owner who said the car wouldn't start at all, wouldn't even turn over. This is with the key! I went over and checked it out. The car started right up for me, but when remote starting, it shut itself down. Obviously the passlock. I reset my bypass unit and plugged it back in. Worked fine. Got another call two days later with the same problems. The owner says it only happens when it's really cold. I'm going there tomorrow to look. Here's the thing. I've probably done about 40 remote starters, 90% of which are this unit. I went over my install and examined the connections. All are well soldered and insulated. I can't think of any reason the thing wouldn't start with the key. Any Ideas?
-Mark
jrilla 
Gold - Posts: 1,498
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 19, 2002
Location: North Dakota, United States
Posted: January 22, 2003 at 6:01 PM / IP Logged  
It sounds like the passlock to me.  I assume it is a Passlock II, but I saw anot where it could be a Paalock I if it was made early enough.  I thought it must be a passlock I before I looked it up, but if it is a passlock II ,then I am not as sure.  You can use a single relay with a trimpot to bypass the Passlock and this will guarantee that the problems you are having will not include the passlock.  I would say It is worth it in this case.  I will email it to you so you can llok at it.
J Rilla
Owner/Installer
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: January 22, 2003 at 6:29 PM / IP Logged  
You should redo the ground.  If possible ground it to the passlock's ground wire.  Should be black and the same size as the code wire, you should double check this, the ground wire will be listed in the install manual.  Also if the car isn't even cranking you should probably replace the starter kill relay.
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markb 
Member - Posts: 43
Member spacespace
Joined: May 09, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2003 at 7:34 AM / IP Logged  

It is a passlock 2.  There is no starter kill relay involved. None of the original iqnition wires were cut, just tinned and then soldered onto. Yes, I am positive my connections are good. If you could see them you would agree. Thats why the whole key not working thing is so weird. As far as the bypass goes, I know it's hooked up right, because It worked, And I don't understand how that would keep the car from cranking. Normally it would start and then shutdown if it was a passlock issue right? It is of the dipswitch type, so I know about the varying resistances with temp. changes, but I ve got a ton of these things out there and this is the only one with this problem. I'm looking at it again tonight. The owner is so pissed he will probably tell me to take it out. Now I'm scared it won't start even with the unit out. I can't think of anything I've done wrong though, as I said I've really done quite a few of these. It's been nonstop since November. I'm sure you guys are busy, too. Anyway, for my own peace of mind I really want to figure this thing out. I don't like mysteries. Thanks for all your help, any more is welcome!

-Mark
jrilla 
Gold - Posts: 1,498
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 19, 2002
Location: North Dakota, United States
Posted: January 23, 2003 at 8:50 AM / IP Logged  

Did you get the email I sent you?  At this point since the customer is pissed, I would definatley bypass the Passlock using the diagram i sent you.  Solder everything.  If you are not prepared to use this method yet, then  watch the security light on the dash when you try to start the car either with the key or with the remote.  Notice how it acts, and if it act funny when it doesn't start, then you know it is your bypass. 

Also make sure that you are measuring your resistence properly.  measure between key side of yellow and the passlock ground wire, then reverse the leads on the DMM and record that reading, then use the higher of the two values.  the greatest part about using  trimpot is that you can get the resistence, closer to the exact value then you could by purchasing a ressitor with the exact value, because you will notice that even expensive DMM can be off when reading a resistor.  With a trimpot, even with a $20 DMM you can get very accurate readings as long the thing is consistent because you can dial in the exact resistence that you measure from the passlock system into the trimpot.

Keep us posted.

J Rilla
Owner/Installer
markb 
Member - Posts: 43
Member spacespace
Joined: May 09, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2003 at 9:16 AM / IP Logged  
Yeah, I'm going to try that tonight. It occurred to me that maybe it only doesn't start with the key after he's tried to remote start it, and with the inaccuracies of the dipswitch bypass, it's tripping the passlock system. Then he wouldn't be able to use the key for a while, right? That would explain why it started right up with the key when I got there. I've always taken an average of the two readings I get with my Fluke DMM leads reversed and used that for my setting, but of course with the dipswitches, you can only get so close. I've never had any problems before, but it seems this car is less tolerant than others.  thats why I was hesitant to try something new , but the more I think about it, the more sense this makes.  I'll try the trimpot method tonight if he's willing. Thanks J.
-Mark
jrilla 
Gold - Posts: 1,498
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 19, 2002
Location: North Dakota, United States
Posted: January 23, 2003 at 9:38 AM / IP Logged  

I would not even tell him you are going to try a different method, just do it.  It only takes about 15 minutes to put in the relay if you have it all ready to go.  Solder your two wires to the trimpot before hand and since you have already tapped the passlock wires, you should be able to hook up the reat of the wires in a couple of minutes. 

The pronlem with the car not starting for a while is what I find wierd.  as far as i can remember, the passlock systems to not make you wait after an unsuccesful attempt.  That is how the VATS works but I know the passlock I does not work this way.  I guess I have never has a problem with the passlock II before so I guess that it could use a time-out feature, but I did not think it did.  That would explain it if it did though.

J Rilla
Owner/Installer
St. Dark 
Member - Posts: 16
Member spacespace
Joined: November 15, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 25, 2003 at 2:04 PM / IP Logged  
Shot in the dark, but you may have a bad piece (bypass module). A bad solder, tiny crack in the circuit board, something like that, that when it's really cold contracts enough to lose contact with the rest of the module's circuit board. Try swapping the module/
zargon 
Copper - Posts: 186
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 27, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 27, 2003 at 7:08 PM / IP Logged  

im wondering what bypass you used to bypass passlock 2? to me it doesnt sound like a passlock issue, it  sounds more like a battery in poor condition!

zargon ruler of estranorth

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