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crossover use and speaker placement


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T.Hill 
Copper - Posts: 268
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Joined: February 21, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: February 06, 2007 at 1:23 PM / IP Logged  
I think I've finally decided on what speakers I want to use, but now I'm just trying to make the set-up work. Pioneer 980BT to a Alpine PDX-4.150. Front channels to a pair of Focal 165v's and rear channels to 2 pair of Adire Extremis run in parallel at a 2ohm load. There will be a 15" sub in back but not 100% on what kind yet. I have 2 questions: 1. If I have the Focal set aimed at the listeners crossed over at 400hz and up will the Adires HAVE to be aimed also or can they be faced towards the middle of the truck. The Adires will be playing from 100hz to 400hz. 2. Is it a no no to use the HU crossover and the amp crossover to basically make a bandpass crossover for the Adire's? My thinking was to use the HP of the HU at 100hz and the LP of the amp at 400hz. Then use the HP from the front channel of the amp set to 400hz to run the focal set. The sub would use the sub crossover control from the HU.
Sorry this is so long I just want to make sure I only have to do this once and not have to redo or buy more equipment. thanks in advance for the help. And yes I did read the stickies from Steven K. before posting....
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
Steven Kephart 
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 10:27 AM / IP Logged  

1.  No.  The Extremis won't beam within that frequency range, so any aiming will more than likely be a waste of time.

2.  It will probably work.  Just keep in mind that the quality of the crossovers in those things aren't usually the best.  The potentiometers in amplifiers are usually pretty inacurate and might be difficult to dial in correctly.  And from what I understand, the crossovers in head units aren't usually very good either. 

As a suggestion though, I recommend taking the Extremis down much further; maybe to around 50 Hz and run the sub below that.  This should give you a "bass up front" sound. 

Good luck!

DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 10:30 AM / IP Logged  

First, the new Alpine amp is not stable at 2-ohms bridged.  If you want to use the rear channels for mid-bass, you must use at least 2-ohms per channel.  Plus mid-bass is stereo, not mono, so if you use Extremis woofers for mid-bass (a good idea, by the way) they should be mounted in stereo such as in front kick-panels or in the doors and operated with a stereo feed, but not "aimed."  The Alpine ICE amp puts out 150 watts per channel into 4-ohms which is about perfect for the Extremis, so get the 4-ohm versions and use one on each channel 3 and 4.  Next, there is nothing wrong with trying your "bandpass" crossover idea for the mid-woofers.  It might be tricky to get set up correctly, but if the amp has a LP that will reach as high as 400Hz, go for it.

-edit- and I see Steven chimed in while I was typing.  I agree with him, 100Hz HP on an Extremis is not utilizing its full potential.  Indeed, I know at least one person who is using one AS a sub and it kicks ass ported at 28Hz.

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T.Hill 
Copper - Posts: 268
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Joined: February 21, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 1:33 PM / IP Logged  
Dyohn & Steven, I'm just wanting to run channels 3 and 4 at a load of 2ohms each. I have a total of four 4ohm Extremis to play with. I'm thinking the Alpine amp should take a 2ohm load on each of the rear channels(3&4). Only thing is I'm wanting to have one of the Adires from ch3 in the front door and the other in the rear door by itself. Same goes for ch4 and the passenger side. Would that be a problem since they'll be handling the mid-bass? I've checked the manuals and it looks like my options as to where to crossover the sub and Adires is either 50, 63, or 80hz. On another note, do you guys think it would just be easier to get the other amp I was looking at, Zapco DC1000.4, and use all the digital features it comes with. It seems to me that that would solve my problems and be greater quality product. I started looking away from it due to price but am finding out it may be worth it...plus it would be 125w per Adire as opposed to 75watts...Thanks again for the help...
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
Steven Kephart 
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 8:23 PM / IP Logged  

Are you going to have any other speakers in the back?  By themselves, I don't think they would do much good except for maybe detract from your front stage, especially without any level control on it.  They will do a great job on the midbass, much better and much lower than most other midbass drivers on the market.  I say try all 3 crossover points and choose which one sounds best to you. 

The Zapco will more than likely be a MUCH better amp with much more accurate signal processing.  Especially if it is in the digital range.  The Alpine amps look nice, but I am somewhat leary of their power ratings, especially over time.  That's a lot of power to put in such a small package without having some compromise in performance.

stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 10:48 PM / IP Logged  
T.Hill, I don't understand why you are bent on running those Extremis drivers at 2 ohms.  With the time, money and quality components you are putting into your system, you would be much better off running the Extremis drivers at a nominal 4 ohm load on an amp..a pair per channel.  Get, at least, the tested and published performance from the amplifier.  My first thought would be, "I want to run all 4 Extremis...I need another 2 channel amp".
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
T.Hill 
Copper - Posts: 268
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Joined: February 21, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: February 07, 2007 at 10:52 PM / IP Logged  
No I won't have anything else in the rear doors except for the single set of Adires. How much would I be losing by only using one set of Adires in the front with my Focal set? If I use the Zapco the Extremis would be getting 150w each. If I cross them over in the 50 to 60hz range, would that be sufficent midbass? The sub I'm looking at is the upcoming TC Sounds LMS-4100 15". I need the rest of the system to keep up with that sub. Thanks again for your help...
Oh and DYohn, that someone you know using the single Extremis ported at 28hz, would you happen to know the specifics of that box and how much power they are using, since it looks like I might have an extra pair laying around now.
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
T.Hill 
Copper - Posts: 268
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Joined: February 21, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: February 08, 2007 at 8:17 AM / IP Logged  
Sorry Stevdart I just saw that you posted while I was typing. My original plan was to run Exodus LCR kits for my front stage but I was having problems trying to figure out how to get it set up. I was thinking I could run a Zapco DC650.6 but wasn't sure since I only had the front and rear outputs from the HU. I still have all the speakers from that kit(Usher 9950c's,CSS W125's) sitting in my garage. I got the 4ohm versions of the Adires so I could run them at 2ohms and get the more power from the amp.
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 08, 2007 at 9:43 PM / IP Logged  

Wow, you bought Kit LCR's to install in your car?  Well... suffice it to say I would not have recommended that.  :)  Did you actually buy the kits with the crossovers, etc. or did you simply buy the drivers?

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T.Hill 
Copper - Posts: 268
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Joined: February 21, 2003
Location: Missouri, United States
Posted: February 09, 2007 at 8:27 AM / IP Logged  
Well I just bought the speakers in that set except I got the 4ohms versions of the Adires. I just really wanted to have a great front setup and a good amount of midbass. I've never had midbass that I was proud of in past systems. Just highs and some bass that really wasn't that great, mostly noisy compared to quaility systems. Are you saying the LCR's are a bad idea due to the way they would sound or how much work it would take to get them setup properly? I know Mr. Wiggins raved about how well the kits sounded so I took that and ran with it.
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
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