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fuel cut relay


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lagvoid 
Member - Posts: 24
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Joined: February 20, 2005
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 3:15 PM / IP Logged  
I tried remote starting while the alarm was armed and disarmed. I believe the problem is that the ignition wire I'm using shows constant ground. Even when the alarm is disarmed, the orange (ground when armed) wire also shows ground! I didn't think the ground would travel through the relay like that but my knowledge is extremely limited (as you can see). Should I look for an alternate fuel wire? I would be interested in how to use a 2nd relay to kill the first when remote starting. So many relays this is crazy!
KPierson wrote:

Does it remote start when the alarm is disarmed?

I almost seems like the relay is being energized during cranking because 1. your ignition is on AND 2. your alarm is armed. Try disarming the alarm and see if that helps.

If it does, you can use a 2nd relay to prevent this from happening by using the 2nd relay to make sure your first relay is killed whenever the car is remote started (using the (-) status out or a couple of other ways).

KPierson 
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Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 3:47 PM / IP Logged  

Where did you tap the ignition wire?

A relay is simply a resistive coil.  If you put either 12vdc or ground on one side of the coil (pin 85 or 86) and leave the other side of the coil floating (not connected) you will read the exact same signal on both coil wires (the signal will bleed through the coil as long as the circuit isn't completed).  So, to test your (-) when armed wire you would need to pull the relay out of the socket to remove the coil.

I can't see why the car would start fine with the key but not with the remote start.  Unless you tapped the ignition out of the remote start system.  Even then, it should still work unless your ground when out has been damaged (output a - at all times).

Kevin Pierson
lagvoid 
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Joined: February 20, 2005
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 4:07 PM / IP Logged  
Hmmm the ignition wire looks like this:
key---X thick pink from satt x---x #86 relay x---engine
I checked #86 and it sees 12v only during key on. I removed the relay and the small orange (-) when armed does not show ground. I'm about to try moving #86 to connect in between the keyside and alarm main ign wire. Please point out my stupidity if you see what I'm doing wrong!
KPierson 
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Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 4:32 PM / IP Logged  

I don't think moving the wire will help.

When you try remote staring the car see if you have 12vdc from pin 85 to pin 86 of the fuel bypass.  If you do, then you will need to cut one side of the relay (say the orange side) whenever you remote start.  You can do this by connecting the ignition wire to the relay and the (-) status out (should be small blue) to the other side of the second coil.  Then, wire the orange wire going to the coil of the first relay to pin 30 and install a jumper wire from pin 87A to the coil of the first relay where the orange wire used to go.

Kevin Pierson
lagvoid 
Member - Posts: 24
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Joined: February 20, 2005
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 4:34 PM / IP Logged  
I moved the #86 relay and the same thing happens. Remote start dies, key start works.
Tach signal has power when the engine is running. Tach has been learned. I also tried changing to voltage, but the same thing happens.
KPierson 
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Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 4:39 PM / IP Logged  

Does it sound like the car is starving for fuel?  Try bypassing this cutoff and see if that allows you to start the car remotely.  It doesn't sound like you are confident that the fuel cut relay is what is causing your problems.  The first thing you need to do is identify the problem, then you can work on fixing it.

So, to identify the problem, eliminate the relay (wire pin 30 and 87A together to bypass it).

Kevin Pierson
lagvoid 
Member - Posts: 24
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Joined: February 20, 2005
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 4:52 PM / IP Logged  
Sorry I wasn't clear earlier. I bypassed the relay and the remote start worked. The car is starving for fuel. It does the exact same thing when I leave the fuel wire cut.
I just checked pins 85 and 86 while remote starting and you were right. It's showing 12v only during remote starting.
WOW it took me a few reads to picture the 2nd relay you described but I think I get it! I know this is redundant but just in case I got something mixed up.
Relay 1 #85 Orange ground is cut
Relay 1 side of orange ground connects to Relay 2 #87a
Relay 2 #30 connects to alarm side of orange wire just cut
Relay 2 #85 connects to small blue (-) status output
Relay 2 #86 connects to ign
That is brilliant! Gonna go try it out now. This is pretty fun aside from the bumps I'm running into. Thanks for all your support.
KPierson wrote:

I don't think moving the wire will help.

When you try remote staring the car see if you have 12vdc from pin 85 to pin 86 of the fuel bypass. If you do, then you will need to cut one side of the relay (say the orange side) whenever you remote start. You can do this by connecting the ignition wire to the relay and the (-) status out (should be small blue) to the other side of the second coil. Then, wire the orange wire going to the coil of the first relay to pin 30 and install a jumper wire from pin 87A to the coil of the first relay where the orange wire used to go.

lagvoid 
Member - Posts: 24
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Joined: February 20, 2005
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 5:07 PM / IP Logged  
SUCCESS
Thank you so much for helping me out/walking me through all my simple questions! I really appreciate it.
I really wish I could edit my post, but I'm still in noob status.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
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Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: May 10, 2007 at 9:28 PM / IP Logged  
you can't edit your posts after someone else posts after you, or after like 5 mins or something like that.
Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: May 13, 2007 at 11:28 AM / IP Logged  
I'm with KPierson all the way on this, ONLY EVER use armed output and ignition(live on cranking) to the relay coil, otherwise watch your battery even a type 68 run flat OVER NIGHT!  Unfortunately one major alarm manufacturer doesn't use a dedicated ign. standard wire but one side of the onboard (internal) immobiliser is used instead, thus hard to use impossible to use fuel cut in for instance BMW (light green purple) European GM  (Vauxhall, Opel, RED / blue) as they are primer cables and shut down on engine run. The advantage is that once car has started any other problems wont be related to alarm(subject to testing ign and starter sides of alarm immobiliser outputs. Regards
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