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bigger ain't always better


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jazzcustom131 
Copper - Posts: 175
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 3:33 PM / IP Logged  

Really I just wanna vent, and maybe find some insight on why people think like this...

So I was at my local car stereo shop today, and a guy was standing outside while my buddy was listening to my stereo. Like stereo oriented people do, he came over to see what I had that was makin so much racket...

And then of course comes "Yeah, I've got the same speakers as you (JBL GTO1202D's) but I have 10 of them and they play like 200 dB's or something...

Folks, I don't claim to be the brightest bulb in the rock show, but I do know better. As luck would have it, he to has an explorer, so I told him, "Well, why don't we just jump on the meter and see??"

Alright, to defend what knowledge I do have, I have 2 JBL GTO1202D"s in a prefab ported box. I haven't had time to build my custom box, but i'm getting there...

Anywho, we pull around back and Joe brings out the meter. Simply because i'm relatively confident that I know what i'm doing, I let him go first...

A whopping 142.4............. I was not impressed... at all.

Like I figured he would, he jumps out, talking trash and such, and i'm doing the best I can to not smile, cause i've already played a 145.0 on the dash before.

145.4 this time.... not sure what I did different from the competition a few months ago, but who cares, I proved to him that putting 5 times the gear I had in mine was stupid on his part.

I don't comprehend this, what makes people think that more stuff is going to make them louder. I wish the best to these guys that spend fortunes on all the gear, but it seems dumb.

Or am I just putting too much faith in science? Honestly, from a scientific stand point, more subs just makes for more problems. Where is it beneficial? Itseems like if one would put the time into the acoustical engineering (among other science areas) you could prolly achieve close to the same results with much less gear.

Someone clue me in

Greed is for amateurs.
Disorder,chaos,anarchy now THAT is fun!!
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,740
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 4:00 PM / IP Logged  

Americans almost always think bigger is better.  Usually someone like your friend will respond to a test like you describe with "you must have rigged it" or "it was the weather' or "my finger slipped" or something.

People who genuinely believe some idea is true, or who have invested a lot of money into something they have been convinced is true, generally cannot be persuaded to change by science or tests or even their own experience. IMO it's because they are afraid that admitting they were wrong will make them look stupid, when in fact holding onto wrong-headed ideas accomplishes that much more quickly.

Politics, religion, and audio... can't change the ideas of true believers.  Oh well, sell them more woofers.  bigger ain't always better -- posted image.

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zhalverson 
Copper - Posts: 180
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 21, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 4:50 PM / IP Logged  
What science are you speaking of?  Everything being equal, more subs=louder because of more displacement.  But theory isn't always possible to apply in the real world.
sarcomax 
Copper - Posts: 276
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2005
Location: California, United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 4:59 PM / IP Logged  
Impressive looking and impressive sounding are two totally different concepts. I had a celica with 2 rockford dvc 12s running off of a punch 1000 a few years back, never hit the meter but it was audable for blocks. I was running a punch 600.4 to the factory toyota 3 way speakers. I had a very well balanced amature set up. Fast forward to the job that couldn't pay me cash so they put some gear in my car. Six arc audio tens, 2 1000 watt arc amps, an arc 4 channel to run my arc components, and I don't think that it was any louder, and I know that I lost clarity and imaging, but it was a much more impressive looking set up. Chalk one up to the bling factor.
sarcomax 
Copper - Posts: 276
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2005
Location: California, United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 5:02 PM / IP Logged  
more subs means more power too, and if the power is not there, than the displacement of air will be greater out of the mouth of the guy that just dropped a ton of money on subs, but skimped on the power.
jazzcustom131 
Copper - Posts: 175
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 6:19 PM / IP Logged  
the science i'm speaking of says you can pack sub woofers in there all day... but eventually you're not adding to the cause. Only so much is gonna help. I've had a few buddies with crazy loud systems, they add two more subs, redo their math accordingly, and don't do so well the next time on the meter.
Greed is for amateurs.
Disorder,chaos,anarchy now THAT is fun!!
zhalverson 
Copper - Posts: 180
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 21, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 6:35 PM / IP Logged  

No offense man but that's not science.  I think that's called trial and error.

dstang24 
Copper - Posts: 98
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 06, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 7:21 PM / IP Logged  
I'm under the belief that the "adding more woofers" idea works, but only in a certain condition.  If you think of the airspace within a vehicle it is limited, right?  The airspace in an enclosure can be increased (although you do lose airspace in the main cabin), thus making more speakers possible.  Logically thinking more speakers = more volume SPL.  However, since the airspace is decreased inside the cabin, at a certain point the SPL will decrease too.  The added woofer will increase the SPL, but the loss from the airspace change will eventually overcome that gain.  I believe there is a happy medium where the airspace in the cabin VS. the airspace in the enclosure (as a whole) is maximized.  Kind of a related rate or maximizer equation from my Diff. Eq .class.  Has anyone tried to hook up a motor-home shell or any other large vehicle in an extreme SPL competition?  Theoretically, the larger airspace would allow for a larger number of drivers before adding one more would decrease the SPL.  Any thoughts? 
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tcss 
Silver - Posts: 1,623
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 7:24 PM / IP Logged  
What tell people is when I was young ( a loooong time ago ) people used open their hoods to show everyone how big their motor is. Now they open the trunk to let everyone see how big their woofers are. Kind of a short man ( or short something else ) disease.
There is no such thing as free installation!
zhalverson 
Copper - Posts: 180
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 21, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: June 01, 2007 at 8:11 PM / IP Logged  

There's an old saying that goes with it:  "There's no replacement for displacement."  While this obviously doesn't always hold true it definitely can make things easier!

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