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Transmission Destroyed By Python 871xp


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customak47 
Copper - Posts: 164
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 25, 2005
Location: Vanuatu
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 3:24 PM / IP Logged  
My first question to you about this vehicle would be how many miles are on it? If you have over 100,000 miles on it, I would say it's possible it was just the trans time to go. I had a caprice that had a hundred thousand + on and I put a shift kit in it (mechanical) ran it hard for a week just fine, then I put a ecm performance chip in it (eeprom plug and chug) went to back out of the spot to check it out and the reverse gear went in, then out then kaput. It was just that trans's time to go. regardless of chance or fault, If I were you I would only authorize diagnosis on the transmission with the aamco shop because if you just tell them to fix it and after they're done still cannot tell you what caused the failure, then you will get stuck with the bill, because YOU authorized repair. Circuit city states that if the repair facility can show them that their installation caused the damage, then they will authorize the repair to be paid by them. Customers a lot of times get stuck in the middle for this reason. The other thing I would have suggested is to take it to a dealership.They have repair techs that specialize in electrical and transmissions along with almost everything else and may be able to track the problem to the cause.
My rifle is my friend...
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,526
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Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 3:24 PM / IP Logged  

You've definately got your homework done.

Another piece of advice to give you is that statistics and hypothesis will only go so far.  The insurance company will ONLY cover this if they can find a direct connection between the alarm wiring and the tranny failure.  That is why it is important that YOU or someone you trust inspect the wiring in the vehicle BEFORE a CC associate gets to it. 

I'm not trying to say that they may try to hide things or cover things up, but they may try to hide things or cover things up.    :)

Again, if possible, record (and take pictures if possible) of every splice and every wire that looks like it has been probed.  I would be very critical in the search for wires that have had their insulation peeled back and no tape on them.  Your problem sounds very familiar to a wire intermittently grounding out.

The 'typical' alarm wiring guide is 1 to 2 pages printed out from a computer printer.  If he had a couple loose leaf papers with him, that was the guide.  To be dead honest, a circuit diagram would only confuse the majority of installers in the world.  Installers work much better with Where, What, and How (were to find, what color, and how to verify).

Keep the updates coming!

Kevin Pierson
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
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Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 4:40 PM / IP Logged  
A couple things worth mentioning...
Removing the ground from the alarm will not totally disable the alarm. It may even make problems worse. The alarm will often "pull" ground from another circuit like the door trigger or parking light circuit. I would have AAMCO pull the 15 amp fuse for the alarm. There will also be (2) 30 amp fuses that provide power for the remote start. Removing those as well wouldn't be a bad idea.
DEI has a wiring diagram program that installers use. The sheet for your van is only a single page. I doubt the installer was just randomly testing wires.
Butt connectors are not a preferred connection method. Soldering and tape can hold up over a long period if done correctly.
Horn honk is a simple 1-wire connection. It was only a feature added to DEI alarms about 2 years ago. If you had an experienced installer (it sounds like you didn't) then they may have been in the practice of not hooking up horn honk because it wasn't an option for many years. I always hook it up, but I do a lot of things differently than an inexperienced installer.
Domelight supervision does require an extra relay. I believe CC charges for each extra relay. It can also be programmed so the domelight only comes ON when you hit unlock on the remote, and not when the ignition is shut OFF.
Power wires to battery. Not a good idea. All a thief would have to do to disable the alarm is disconnect the power right at the battery. On a properly installed alarm, the thief would have to remove lower dash panels, and possibly some metal bracing before they would have access to the power wires.
Good luck with the fight against CC. I'm sure it will probably get nasty with them saying it has nothing to do with their install.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,526
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Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 5:32 PM / IP Logged  

JWorm wrote:
Power wires to battery. Not a good idea. All a thief would have to do to disable the alarm is disconnect the power right at the battery. On a properly installed alarm, the thief would have to remove lower dash panels, and possibly some metal bracing before they would have access to the power wires.

This can go both ways.  Circuit Citys standpoint on this is if the customer has a problem with their remote there should be an easy way to bypass the system.  Not many thiefs are going to pop the hood and look for an alarm fuse.  At that point, they might as well just cut the battery cables, since they are already at the battery.  The fuse, in my oppinion SHOULD be at the battery, an easy to access spot where a customer can disable the alarm to deactivate the starter kill if they should break/lose their remote.  I always hid the fuse around the battery as much as possible so that it wasn't clearly visable.

Kevin Pierson
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
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Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 8:14 PM / IP Logged  
KPierson wrote:

JWorm wrote:
Power wires to battery. Not a good idea. All a thief would have to do to disable the alarm is disconnect the power right at the battery. On a properly installed alarm, the thief would have to remove lower dash panels, and possibly some metal bracing before they would have access to the power wires.

This can go both ways.  Circuit Citys standpoint on this is if the customer has a problem with their remote there should be an easy way to bypass the system.  Not many thiefs are going to pop the hood and look for an alarm fuse.  At that point, they might as well just cut the battery cables, since they are already at the battery.  The fuse, in my oppinion SHOULD be at the battery, an easy to access spot where a customer can disable the alarm to deactivate the starter kill if they should break/lose their remote.  I always hid the fuse around the battery as much as possible so that it wasn't clearly visable.

Circuit City just doesn't want to pay for the car getting towed when one of their incompetent installers does a bad install.
The valet button should be used to disarm the alarm if the remote is lost or broken.
If the thief cuts the battery cables, how are they going to start the car?
Most thiefs pop the hood, then cut the siren wires which are usually easy to get at. If I saw some fuses at the battery that looked like they were alarm related, I would probably take the fuses out or cut those wires.
KarTuneMan 
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Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: December 14, 2004
Location: Isle Of Man
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 8:25 PM / IP Logged  
Not that it has ANY impact on the thread in general but, I FOR 1, cannot wait to see some pics!Transmission Destroyed By Python 871xp - Page 2 -- posted image.
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
Platinum spacespace
Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 8:35 PM / IP Logged  
KarTuneMan wrote:
Not that it has ANY impact on the thread in general but, I FOR 1, cannot wait to see some pics!Transmission Destroyed By Python 871xp - Page 2 -- posted image.
Yeah....sorry about that. I'll stay on topic in this thread with any future posts.
I would like to see some pictures of the install as well. The original poster has some pictures on that link he posted, but they won't load for me.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,526
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Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: June 25, 2007 at 8:51 PM / IP Logged  

JWorm wrote:
Circuit City just doesn't want to pay for the car getting towed when one of their incompetent installers does a bad install.
The valet button should be used to disarm the alarm if the remote is lost or broken.
If the thief cuts the battery cables, how are they going to start the car?
Most thiefs pop the hood, then cut the siren wires which are usually easy to get at. If I saw some fuses at the battery that looked like they were alarm related, I would probably take the fuses out or cut those wires.

Typically, the fuse is only important when the remote has been lost or damaged.  Most alarm customers don't know where their valet switch is hidden or how to use it anyway.  There is nothing more frustrating then trying to tell an irate customer where you hid their valet switch 9 months ago when their car is completely disabled by the system you installed.  Although it isn't your problem, it is YOU that is expected to provide a quick fix over the phone.

If the thief has already cut the siren wires, the alarm fuse, at that point, is worthless anyway.  Like I said, there are two ways to look at it, and in my opinion, I would want the alarm fuse at the battery.

Kevin Pierson
mabuffalo 
Copper - Posts: 63
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: June 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: June 26, 2007 at 11:35 AM / IP Logged  

Yes, I’m definitely looking for a “smoking gun!” I’ll try to avoid the statistical probability and the “what constitutes scientific proof?” approach; I agree that it wouldn’t ‘play well’ in Buffalo or elsewhere. I guess I’m simply trying to explain why I appear to be “begging the question” – assuming the problem is related to the Circuit City installation without identifying the exact mechanism.

I have been searching the web for reports of others who have had similar experiences. I found (on this site) that this problem can occur on GM products if the second ignition wire is not connected. I haven’t found much on Ford products yet. I was hoping that my posting here would cause some ‘flocking’ of others who have experience with this problem in Fords. This problem may be beyond local expertise; thus, my reaching out to the World Wide Web for help.

Meanwhile, my patience has run out. I’m going this afternoon to AAMCO with camera in hand to see if I can photograph the installation. I have avoided touching anything myself; I don’t want my fingerprints on the alarm installation. But tomorrow afternoon will be one week since the alarm installation with subsequent transmission failure, and it’s time to get things moving ahead.

I’ll try to post point-by-point comments in a reply to your specific comments later this evening (e.g., I stand corrected -- he probably did have a page or two indicating the wiring for my vehicle, and I concur that a real wiring schematic for the vehicle was unnecessary and would have only confused him).

In case you missed the original link with the transmission pictures and long narrartive, it is repeated below:

www.AddictionScience.net/CircuitCity.htm

MABuffalo
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
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Joined: December 11, 2002
Location: New Hampshire, United States
Posted: June 26, 2007 at 1:17 PM / IP Logged  
Your images still don't load on that page.
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