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Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 1:56 AM / IP Logged  

Have you ever had one of those installs where everything just seems to go wrong?  Well I had one in what looked from the beginning an easy vehicle; a single button remote start in an 02 Accord.  The customer was an old lady who wanted remote start, while keeping her factory keyless.  We were surprised to find out that the only bypass module we had in stock was an ancient (5 years old +) Peripheral model.  However I prepped the system not knowing this would be a glimpse at the troubles to come. 

Trying to remove the underdash pannel turned out to be difficult.  Two of the clips would not release.  So I grabbed a panel popper and finally got both to release.  However I was shocked to find that it wasn't the clips that released, but the plastic bases themselves.  So my first task was to re-glue them back on. The next bit of difficulty I ran into was not being able to find the unlock wire Directechs specified over on the passenger side which was to be used to disarm the factory alarm.  That wasn't too big a deal as some testing resulted in me finding it, just of another color wire.  The rest of the installation seemed to go smooth, with everything working just fine. 

The customer came back to pick up the vehicle 10 minutes before we closed.  I proceeded to take them out to the parking lot to give a demonstration of how everything works, but was surprised to find that the remote start triggered the factory alarm.  I heard the unlock activate which was supposed to disarm the alarm, but it didn't seem to do it's job.  It then occurred to me that I had forgotten to test that portion beyond checking to make sure the locks activated.  So I pulled it back in the shop to use instead the other wire which could be used to disarm the factory alarm which Directechs calls the "factory disarm no unlock" wire which is located in the drivers door.  This went rather quick and everything seemed to work just fine.  However now we ran into the problem where the keyless entry doesn't work when the ignition is on.  Honda's (as are Toyota's) are notorious for this lockout feature.  The customer is upset and doesn't want to have to use the key to unlock the door after they remote start it, so as my boss wanting to appease her offers to install a remote start/keyless entry system for free instead. 

So today this 02 Accord comes back to me.  I have to pull out the old system and re-install a new one that includes keyless.  That should be easy as most of my wires are already run.  My first concern was that the bottom dash panel repair I made previously wouldn't hold.  But I was shocked to find it did.  My repair was actually stronger than the factory panel.  So I then proceeded to cut all the wire ties and pull the old system out and install the new one.  Everything seems to be going fine until testing.  I first attempt to program the bypass module in case it lost it's programming when it lost power.  However for some reason it won't program.  I decide to test the remote start and it cranks but won't engage.  So I put the key in the ignition and still it cranks without engaging.  My boss immediately suggests I use the key to start the vehicle and we are surprised to find that the vehicle will only crank.  So I tested all my connections and removed the bypass module from the system and still the vehicle won't start.  My boss figured that my attempt at programming the module caused too many "keys" to be programmed to the vehicle and locked them all out.  Several calls to the Honda dealership gave us some instructions on how to bypass the factory security system and start the vehicle to get it to them to re-program the keys.  They got them programmed, but said their computer said there was an open wire.  When we got the vehicle back I checked over the system and found a factory wire I accidentally cut when clipping all those wire ties.  It is sheer irony that it just happened to be a factory security wire.  I'm still wondering why, when this wire was still cut, they were able to program the keys and get them to work without problems.  Anyway, I re-attached that wire and everything worked fine.

You think now my troubles with this vehicle are over.  However my boss now notices that the factory system had trunk pop and we need to add it to completely eliminate the factory remote.  So I quickly wire up a relay, find the factory wire and connect everything up.  I grab the remote to test it and nothing happens.  I cut the tape on my relay to check all the connections and see they are just fine.  So I grab my meter and find there is no output going to the relay.  However a quick swap of the brain and now it works just fine. 

I know there were several mistakes I made in there which added to my grief.  And I'm sure I will look like a less than perfect installer because of admitting them here.  But added up with all the other happenstance things I ran into, this vehicle quickly became the most frustrating install I have ever done.  So now that I'm done ranting, I want to know if you have ever ran into a vehicle like this?  Have you ever when you are putting the last panel back on, you are wondering what bad thing will happen or what won't all of a sudden work next?  Well here's your venting ground.  Please post the install that haunts your past the most.  Who knows, maybe we can learn from each-others mistakes and experiences.

brhaugen 
Copper - Posts: 275
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 30, 2005
Location: North Dakota, United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 6:52 AM / IP Logged  
We have all had a few of these.
brcidd 
Copper - Posts: 273
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 07, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 7:50 AM / IP Logged  

I had an '05 Dodge Ram that smoked the internals of the brain box of the R/S because the accessory circuit to the blower motor does not use a relay for the high speed- so lots of amps are being pulled through the internal relay of the brain box when owner has blower motor on "high"  -- I wanted tech assist to put a warning on the wiring diagram for this truck that you need an external hi amp relay to install when doing this job--- they told me just to tell the owner not to put his blower on "high" when remote starting-- yeah right...  they also said these trucks were known for ignition switch failures due to the same reason-- no high blower relay in the circuit.... and to live with it-   This did not happen til over a year after the initial install.

That's not all- The starter had continually run to the point it ruined the starter motor- starter was locked on because the melted box- (quarter sized hole on back of unit)- the truck was filled with smoke- before a fuse finally blew- owner cut out the brain box- brought it to me in a box. 

The ironic thing is that he had it towed to the local Dodge dealership- and they covered the replacement starter motor under warranty- the owner let me re-install another R/S unit and I put in dual external relays for the accessory circuit.  I thought for sure the dealership would have blamed the R/S - but they must have been hungry enough to cover it anyway........

Brcidd - Engineer That Does Remote Starter Installs on the side.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 1:14 PM / IP Logged  
I decided to take out the lever operated trunk release on my '99 UK spec. Galant and substitute a solenoid, fed through a relay from a neg going switch and the boot (sorry trunk) release button on my G4 remote. I get an urgent phone call from a customer, stand up to answer and find some paper, I've MISWIRED the relay WITHOUT CHECKING and I blow the aux and locks control chip!! Urgent "do us a quick favour please"  phone calls to DEI and I shove my spare brain in. The next day I decide to have the flashers going when my r/s is operating. UK Cat 1 alarms won't do this but hey we've got spares from the I/start IV brain and I'll diode out. guess what, I screwed up somewhere and blew the brain on the I/Start and I've got starter but no ignition. More grovelling calls to the repair boys at DEI and $60 lighter. So my sypathies lie with you, we've all done it, how many of us have narrowly avoided disaster on stripping a car we've never worked on before?
ibasspro 
Copper - Posts: 95
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 1:49 PM / IP Logged  

Copied this from my post on DEI's forum, not proud, but stuff happens.....

Here is my worst ever. Back when I owned Audio Expresions. I did an amp & sub in a 96 Cadi STS. Mounted the amp next to the sub. Customer comes in for pickup & askes my installer to remount the amp to the back of the seat. On those all the vehicle electronics are on the back of the seat, & BAM he nails the alarm module. So, I call around town, dealers don't have it, so I offer to install a RS W/keyless for him. F'in car, my 1st Audiovox RS (F those BTW, but nothin else had the outputs I needed), & the car was not an STS, or an eldo, of any caddi that I could find on DT, or any database anywhere. 4 DAYS!!! it took me, because it had to do everything, RS, trunk pop, fuel door pop, window roll ups & down, sun roof open shut. I WAS wizED, frustrated, out of my head. I so I get it all done, & go to remount the amp, & "PSSSS", screw into the spare tire FAWK MAN!

almost 1 year later the customer comes back & tells me the alarm went off in the middle of the night & wouldn't shut off. So I bite the bullet, take the car back in & track down a new module from caddi, for $680, take the Audiovox out, & send the customer on his way, & hoped I never saw him again
I still don't know what kind of caddi it was, but no spec sheets anywhere were even close. it had STS on the trunk, but nothin else. no owners manual, & to top it off, the customer was an azz.

used to be loud, used to be fast...now I am married LOL
tedmond 
Gold - Posts: 4,610
Gold spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 2:39 PM / IP Logged  
kk this was most recent for me. first time having trouble with an accord 98. I used audiovox and scyteks wire diagrams, dmm all my wires before connecting. i wire in all the required wires. start and alarm. the wiring said the EX unlock with take car of the facotry alarm in passenger. After testing it, the car kept wailing on me. started to wiz me off. I finally foudn unlock/lock wires that will arm/disarm the system on driver side close to kick panel in a 2 pin female connecter. After i got the car properly wires, tried to remote start, car wouldnt start and pager kept syaing hood was opened. I used a factory hood pin, dissconnected it and still same thing. wth. Swapped out 2 modules and stilll same problem. i was ripping my hair out. after cyc,ing power a few times on the unit, it started to work fine. but now the honda-sl3 wouldnt turn on. i touched the ground input from bypass moduel to ground to see if it turned on, that was fine. THis car was seriously killing me. After one more power cycle everything worked fine. a day later the guy comes back and says i can only start my car sometimes. so i hop inside the car, arm it then start. bypass turns on (confirm by red led) car starts then dies. the cluster shows a green flashing key. I reset the fortin bypass, relearn the code and it works fine. customer happy. Later on in the afternoon he calls back and says he has the same prob. it only remote starts sometimes - at this point im not too happy. over a period of 4 days i finally get it working properly...with a new system ofcourse.  well that was my first possessed vehicle lol  
tcss 
Silver - Posts: 1,623
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 6:52 PM / IP Logged  
Notice all of these cars involve remote starts and/or alarms? For that reason I have almost completely stopped doing them.
There is no such thing as free installation!
ibasspro 
Copper - Posts: 95
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: November 27, 2007 at 8:15 PM / IP Logged  

tcss wrote:
Notice all of these cars involve remote starts and/or alarms? For that reason I have almost completely stopped doing them.

LOL, I hear ya. I get a kick outta some folks that say they can pop out 5-6 RS a day.....I have never seen a shop that has that kind of volumne of RS!!! sheez...I may see 4-5 alarms a week, & maybe 3-4 RS a month (thank god)

used to be loud, used to be fast...now I am married LOL
tedmond 
Gold - Posts: 4,610
Gold spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: November 29, 2007 at 3:12 PM / IP Logged  
the most starts i haev done was 4 rs/alarms in one day. Good 12 hours of work. 3 hours a car damn went crazy. But there are some car shops here that work for dealers that do at least a dozen.
hungryandfat 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: December 05, 2007
Location: Indiana, United States
Posted: December 05, 2007 at 8:35 PM / IP Logged  
hungryandfat wrote:
ibasspro wrote:

tcss wrote:
Notice all of these cars involve remote starts and/or alarms? For that reason I have almost completely stopped doing them.

LOL, I hear ya. I get a kick outta some folks that say they can pop out 5-6 RS a day.....I have never seen a shop that has that kind of volumne of RS!!! sheez...I may see 4-5 alarms a week, & maybe 3-4 RS a month (thank god)

Dang thing.... didnt mean to post the other post yet. Anyways... ***edit: other post gone ***

The last shop I worked at it was normal for a tech to have 4-7 rs/rs-keyless installs a day and we had 4-5 techs doing 4-7 a day from oct-march. Summer time most techs did 1-3. Alarms were more popular in the spring summer. Ive always wondered what other shops numbers were. but really depends on market/location/etc...  

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