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Round Port Calculator?


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hum dinger 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2008
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: January 01, 2009 at 11:25 PM / IP Logged  
Hey guys, I was messing with the round port calcualtor on this site and I think somethings goofy (might be me).  I have a Diamond D6 12d2 and when I punch in the numbers on the calculator that I got from the subs instruction manual it comes up with a different lenght port.  It looks like it's the the tuning frequency.  The calcualor says to use Fb but the port length #'s don't match the manual but when I put in F3 instead of Fb they com out right.  Is the calcuator asking for the wrong thing or is the manual for the sub screwed up?
whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: January 02, 2009 at 1:26 AM / IP Logged  
How far off are they?
There are many factors that can cause the difference. One is the end correction which can give you different values. One other likely one is the volume. The manual may give you an enclosure volume with the sub and port displacement factored in. That would cause the value to be different as well.
List some of the info you put in and got and we can help you out a little more.
hum dinger 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2008
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: January 02, 2009 at 7:01 PM / IP Logged  

the manual say 1.25 ft3 , 4" diameter port and a Fb of 40 /  F3 of 34.  The manual says the port length should be 20.5" and the calcuator said it should be 16" I think.  The manual does state that all volumes are show as gross internal volumes, driver and vent displacement has been accounted for.

It also says to use a 30Hz subsonic filter for ported enclosures.  Won't that cut off a lot of the deep bass or will I not notice?

whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: January 03, 2009 at 1:45 AM / IP Logged  
I went through and checked their dimensions by using BassBox. They do say in the manual that the driver and vent displacement is already factored. The calculator does not factor for this. That means you must take away the displacement from the sub and the port to get the correct internal volume for the calculator.
I went through and checked their dimensions and compared them to the calculator using BassBox Pro. What I found was that even after taking into account the port and sub displacement you would have an internal volume of around 1 cubic foot. That is strecthing it too because the volume is likely a little higher. Even with that internal volume I got a tuning frequency of only 37Hz.
I then wanted to check the calculator on this site. I put a few sample enclosures in on BassBox and came up with close values as the calculator on this site. That means that Diamond's specs are not completely correct or they are factoring in something I did not think of (maybe bracing???).
Even if there specs are correct I wouldn't use them. I have that same sub and I put it in that same enclosure except with a slot port. Unless you are looking for output and not much sound quality that enclosure is not going to be right for you. 40Hz is just too high of tuning for me.
Using BassBox I came up with a great enclosure for that sub. It is about 0.75-1 cubic foot tuned to 25-26Hz. The only problem is that in order to make that enclosure you will need a extremely long port. The enclosure will be very big as well. That enclosure will give you great sound quality and it has a very flat response.
If you use a 30Hz subsonic filter you are protecting your sub. You won't really notice any loss in deep output as the enclosure won't be producing much around 30Hz anyways. With that high of tuning the enclosure won't be producing much under 40Hz.
hum dinger 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2008
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: January 03, 2009 at 11:51 AM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the info Rob.  I was wanting to do a slot port myself but with playing with the calcuator on here for round ports I noticed it was off.  So your saying a 1cubic foot box tuned to 26Hz would be a better setup for this sub?  I assume the subsinic should be moved down to maybe the 20Hz range?  That would be a small box to fit a port into.  I guess I could build the box bigger so the port would fir easier and then add some scrap wood to the inside to take up the extra space.

Man I am getting confused.  So if the manual says I need a box that is 1.25 cubic foot  does that means I need a box that the internal will be closer to 1.4  cubic foot because of the sub and the ports displacement inside the box correct?  Or since they say in the manual that all volumes are shown as gross internal volumes, diver and vent displacement have been accounted for.  Does that mean to build the box at 1.25 cubic foot and just add the port and sub and it will knock it down to an actual 1 cubic foot ish.  This is hard to put into words I hope you understand my question.

whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: January 04, 2009 at 2:44 AM / IP Logged  
hum dinger wrote:

Thanks for the info Rob.  I was wanting to do a slot port myself but with playing with the calcuator on here for round ports I noticed it was off.  So your saying a 1cubic foot box tuned to 26Hz would be a better setup for this sub?  I assume the subsinic should be moved down to maybe the 20Hz range?  That would be a small box to fit a port into.  I guess I could build the box bigger so the port would fir easier and then add some scrap wood to the inside to take up the extra space.

Man I am getting confused.  So if the manual says I need a box that is 1.25 cubic foot  does that means I need a box that the internal will be closer to 1.4  cubic foot because of the sub and the ports displacement inside the box correct?  Or since they say in the manual that all volumes are shown as gross internal volumes, diver and vent displacement have been accounted for.  Does that mean to build the box at 1.25 cubic foot and just add the port and sub and it will knock it down to an actual 1 cubic foot ish.  This is hard to put into words I hope you understand my question.

The 0.75 cubed at 26Hz enclosure is my preferable enclosure. It is not the most practical as the port is extremely long and not easy to fit. When I designed that enclosure for my sub the port length was around 75-80 inches with a slot port design, lol. The enclosure would take up most trunks with that port, lol. A round port could work but it would be extremely long and I never really tried to design one. If you do that then the subsonic would need to be around 20Hz like you said.
I only recommend that because I used Diamond's recommended enclosure specs (with the slot port design which has the same specs I believe). The output was good but I was unhappy with the sound quality and the lack of deep bass. That is my opinion though, you may like Diamond's recommended enclosure.
If you go with Diamond's recommended enclosure you would make the enclosure 1.25 cubic foot. The driver and port displacement are already factored in so just make it 1.25 cubic foot and you are all set. Like I said before, the net internal volume changes which is most likely why the values you were getting were different.
Just to clear it up for anyone, the calculator on this site is correct. I have checked it with other calculators and using the formula for the port length and it is fine.
hum dinger 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2008
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: January 04, 2009 at 11:39 PM / IP Logged  

So how much can you mess with the dimensions/ port size etc?  I asume diamond has played with the #'s to get their sub to be the best they can get.  Can I just change port size to tune it to whatever Hz I want.  I relize this will change the cubic foot of the box because the port will take up more or less displacement.  If I do tune it lower does the box displacement overall have to change.  I noticed yours is smaller at .75.  I thought the bigger the box the lower it would play?  There must be a reson they didn't tune it lower themselves, can the sub just not handle that low of freq?

You mentioned that with your design the port would be 75" long.  When I was messing with the port calcuators I notice the smaller you make the diameter the shorter the port would be.  Were you using a 4" diameter port?  If you were and went to a 2" diameter port it seems to cut the lenght in half.  Is this correct?  Is there a reason you don't want to go with a smaller than 4" port in general?  Same thing with a slot port.  The one they show on Diamonds site has a rediculous length.  Why not just make the slot 4"X1" and the port should be closer to 10" long?  There must be a reason,  every slot port box I see has a big ass 4"X12" opening .  Acording to the calcuator you could just make the opening smaller and not eat up so much box space.

Sorry I ramble on and mix in 10 questions.

i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,716
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: January 05, 2009 at 6:34 AM / IP Logged  
The smaller the port, the more chance you have of it producing "Non Musical Sounds"  A.K.A. Port Noise.
whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: January 05, 2009 at 1:27 PM / IP Logged  
hum dinger wrote:

So how much can you mess with the dimensions/ port size etc?  I asume diamond has played with the #'s to get their sub to be the best they can get.  Can I just change port size to tune it to whatever Hz I want.  I relize this will change the cubic foot of the box because the port will take up more or less displacement.  If I do tune it lower does the box displacement overall have to change.  I noticed yours is smaller at .75.  I thought the bigger the box the lower it would play?  There must be a reson they didn't tune it lower themselves, can the sub just not handle that low of freq?

You mentioned that with your design the port would be 75" long.  When I was messing with the port calcuators I notice the smaller you make the diameter the shorter the port would be.  Were you using a 4" diameter port?  If you were and went to a 2" diameter port it seems to cut the lenght in half.  Is this correct?  Is there a reason you don't want to go with a smaller than 4" port in general?  Same thing with a slot port.  The one they show on Diamonds site has a rediculous length.  Why not just make the slot 4"X1" and the port should be closer to 10" long?  There must be a reason,  every slot port box I see has a big ass 4"X12" opening .  Acording to the calcuator you could just make the opening smaller and not eat up so much box space.

Sorry I ramble on and mix in 10 questions.

Like the post above said, you don't want to make the port too small or you will have port noise. The hard part is finding a port size that does not have port noise but also is not too long. The bigger the port the less port noise you will have. However, your port will be much longer.
I would not use anything smaller then a 4" port. You may be able to get by with a 3" aeroport but then again you may have some port noise.
Manufacturer's recommended enclosure is not always ideal. They factor in many things when they make their recommended enclosure. Why I think Diamond made the design they did was because of two main factors. The first is that many people will like the sound that enclosure makes. It is going to give you good output, although not too much sound quality. If that is what you want then that design will work for you. Like I said before, I prefer more sound quality then loudness so I made my own design.
The second reason I believe they made the design they did was because of the difficulty of the design. Diamond wanted to make the smallest overall enclosure and one that is easy to build. That is why they have a 1.25 cubic foot enclosure that has a relatively small port. My design is rather large and difficult to build. It is not something many people are going to want to build or have room to build.
I used a slot port design which is why it is so long. I made it to not have port noise. Since the volume is so small the port is extremely long as well.
The reason I chose 0.75 cubic foot was due to it's better sound quality then a larger enclosure. I don't have any problem with not having low end bass because it has usable bass all the way down to around 20Hz. Plenty deep enough with that low tuning. If you made the enclosure bigger you would get more output at the lower frequencies but not as good sound quality.
If you use a 2" port instead of a 4" port the port will not be half the size. It would be much shorter then half the length. You would use the calculator to figure out how long exactly. Like said before you would have port noise if you did you a 2" port however.
Diamond has a slot port design on their website as well. It may be worth a look over. The same specs as the round port in the manual but uses a slot port instead.
http://www.diamondaudio.com/PDF/current/WiringEnclosures/Single12VentedEnclosure.pdf
hum dinger 
Member - Posts: 26
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2008
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: January 05, 2009 at 10:39 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the info guys.

I want to make a fiberglass box with a slot port so the one on the site is out.  How about a slot port that is about  5" X 2" ish  would that create a lot of port noise?


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