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Damage Claim Policies


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specialblendj 
Copper - Posts: 118
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Joined: September 03, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: February 16, 2005 at 10:17 PM / IP Logged  
The subject of damaged vehicles and who is liable to pay for part damaged both by highly avoidable mistakes and unavoidable accidents has come up recently at my shop and there has been some debate about it amongst employees.  I am curious as to what other shops policies are.  The shop is not a large chain store, but does staff a large number of employees.  Does anyone know of any industry standards for damaged property in a shop such as this?  Or have opinions on what is fair?
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
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Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 16, 2005 at 10:54 PM / IP Logged  
Most places I have worked for it was installer pays for his stupid mistakes, first one free. If mistake was unavoidable or out of installers control then the shop pays for it.
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10nesne1 
Silver - Posts: 284
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Joined: June 19, 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posted: February 18, 2005 at 6:48 AM / IP Logged  
It doesn't matter if your shop is a chain store or not. Even a small retail store. It's against the law to charge your employee for any type of damaged claims regardless the employee's mistakes or unavoidable accidents. I worked in a number of shops in Canada and made a couples mistakes in the past. My ex-employer had a store policy to charge employee for 50% on any mistake. We all agreed to pay for it. This claim was too expense at 50% happened on a one of the chain. We all went to the local gov't office to check on it and found out it was against the law to charge an employee. We took the paper work and confronted the employer and had the 50% damage claims removed.
Every business required to buy a shop insurance. If any some claims than the employer will pay out of his or her pocket and if it's too big than use the shop insurance to cover it. In Canada, it cost of doing business and the employer can write it off at the end of the year.
Now, I work in a bigger chain store in Canada. In my shop, employee is not required to pay for any mistake, but in one shop in the same chain employee is required to pay 50% for any mistake. I talked to those co-workers and gave the gov't paper to the install manager regard the damage claims. But the install manager was too stupid to deal with it.
"I wouldn't work for any company if I had to pay any damage claim and it's against the law to charge an employee for it."
Zarbel 
Member - Posts: 4
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Joined: May 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: February 21, 2005 at 6:15 PM / IP Logged  

10nesne1 wrote:
It doesn't matter if your shop is a chain store or not. Even a small retail store. It's against the law to charge your employee for any type of damaged claims regardless the employee's mistakes or unavoidable accidents. I worked in a number of shops in Canada and made a couples mistakes in the past. My ex-employer had a store policy to charge employee for 50% on any mistake. We all agreed to pay for it. This claim was too expense at 50% happened on a one of the chain. We all went to the local gov't office to check on it and found out it was against the law to charge an employee. We took the paper work and confronted the employer and had the 50% damage claims removed.
Every business required to buy a shop insurance. If any some claims than the employer will pay out of his or her pocket and if it's too big than use the shop insurance to cover it. In Canada, it cost of doing business and the employer can write it off at the end of the year.
Now, I work in a bigger chain store in Canada. In my shop, employee is not required to pay for any mistake, but in one shop in the same chain employee is required to pay 50% for any mistake. I talked to those co-workers and gave the gov't paper to the install manager regard the damage claims. But the install manager was too stupid to deal with it.
"I wouldn't work for any company if I had to pay any damage claim and it's against the law to charge an employee for it."

Correct!  However wrong it may be.  The bottom line it that it is very difficult to take money from an employee.  The real question you should be asking is if you want someone working on your customers cars who makes "stupid mistakes" at all.  We have determined that there are installers around that simply lack the concern for customers vehicles that is necessary in this field.  You find out who these people are after the first time they break something and the first thing they are worried about is if they have to pay for it or not.  The professional will more that likely recognize that it was a stupid mistake and be so mortified by it that he is more than willing to pay for it in effort to minimize the impact on the company that pays his salary.  After all the company doesn't pay him/her to be negligent.  The best policy that we have come up with is to look at the specific case and determine if your think it happened due to carelessness.  If so, pay for the repair and cut the employee their final check.

10nesne1 
Silver - Posts: 284
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 19, 2002
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Posted: February 22, 2005 at 2:41 AM / IP Logged  
Zarbel, you sound like a fair man.
If he/she is careless and make stupid mistakes, that cost the company money. Compay will either terminated him/her or offer training and tech support from suppliers. This company had proformance reviews every 6 months to deal with issues. It's great to work when company pays for training and support.
On the other hand, there are customers will blame the installer scratch the dash, dent the door, or break a panel. It's difficult to charge an employee money, isn't it?
We had been burn too many times, so we had a check list to fill out with the customer. It takes 5 to 10 minutes fill out and it saves lot of headache. It won't cost company money and keeps installer happy.
specialblendj 
Copper - Posts: 118
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Joined: September 03, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: February 23, 2005 at 11:00 AM / IP Logged  

  Well I'm glad to see that there is some legislation on this particular issue.  To me damage to property is a risk of doing business, and one that should be bared by the business owner.  After all, the security of shop insurance is a large part of a shops appeal.  Lots of installers could just work out of their garage all day, but a shop provides facilities, stability, and relief of liability.  After all, the shop is making over $60.00 per hour off an employee that they pay less than $15.00 in most cases.  Why should the employee bare the expense of damaged products.  Labor is risky business, and no matter how careful you are, sometimes things happen.  Especially when your still learning.  I have yet to work for a shop which truly dedicated time to training new installers.  It's always, let somebody know if you have questions.  But other employees get restless from answering your questions constantly and the sales guys want things done quick.  Not to mention most of the supervisors that I've had have wanted me to try things out myself and figure them out.  Also in my experience most damages are caused by pressures placed by the business owner.  I would love to take all day long to do a very simple job, and I'm sure that I could do so without every causing damage to a product, but it wouldnt' be efficient.  Installers aren't given time to do a lot of the little things that they would like to do.  How many of you use computer software to check the colors of wires for alarms systems, but still test every single wire with a meter first for example?

  I have to say I find it very ironic though that installers are often the first ones to come forward and say that they should be responsible for damaged parts.  Especially when there's apparently a law designed to protect them from this.  Call me crazy but I think "the man" is right on this issue. 

  On the flipside however, the employer witholds the right to punish or fire employees who cause frequent damage, as they should.  I agree with this, there should always be policy stating just how many mistakes in a given time frame are appropriate.  I just don't think that employees should be liable for payment.   

Zarbel 
Member - Posts: 4
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Joined: May 22, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: February 25, 2005 at 1:04 PM / IP Logged  

It's really just a question of personal responsibility.  Owner's have a responsibility to pay the employees for work performed.  In turn the "Professional Installer" has a responsibilty to produce defect free labor.  it is not a question of who is making more money, who has pressure or who has been trained.  If any of those items are an issue, then again it is the responsibilty of the unsatisfied party to voice their concerns and take the appropriate action, up to and including terminating the relationship.  That is how professionals conduct themselves.

To not accept responsibility in all aspects would be unprofessional.  Lets say for instance the owner made a mistake and didnt pay the employee properly.  You can bet that the employee as well as "the man" would be less than forgiving and would force the owner to pay for their mistake.  To somehow say "that's the way it should be" just because they busted their back to open a business and employ people, while not forcing the same responsibilty on the "Professional" is wrong on many levels.  It is this mentality that plagues our society and leads to an overall lack of personal responsibility.

Obviously I would apperar bias based on the position that I currently hold, just know that I started out as a Green-Pea Installer some 15 years ago and I didnt get where I am today by expecting others to bare the burden of any of my errors.

Ok , I'll get off my soapbox now.  ;o)

kgerry 
Platinum - Posts: 3,455
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: February 07, 2004
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posted: February 25, 2005 at 3:55 PM / IP Logged  

couldnt have said it better Mitch

all i know is my conscientious employees would never raise this issue with me... if they screwed up, out of simple professional pride they would at least offer to pay for their own damage..... it seems to be the slackers in society who are always looking for someone else to shoulder responsibility for something.... of course, those are usually the same guys who are griping that they only make  9 or 10 bucks an hour......    do you see the correlation??

Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

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