upgrade stereo system

first  just wanted to say thanks. this site has been informative and has allowed me to figure out alot of stuff on my own. just wanted opinions on build. currently i have infinity kappas in all doors and rear deck with zx350.4 and zx150.2 powering them. i have 2 crappity sony 12s and a zx750.1 in a home built mdf box. its not bad but im putting in 12" l7s. anyways i was thinking of putting three in the back. keeping my 750 to power one of them and getting a zx1500. to power the other 2.  one would be sealed two would be ported. or i will sell my 750 and just do 2 with one ported and one sealed. if i do just the 2 and run them off the zx1500 with one of them a sealed box and one a ported will i have problems? what i mean to say is i know that the rms of l7s changes when in a ported box vs a sealed box so if i wire them to the one amp would it be underpowered on one side? i dont wanna build a bandpass. to complicated to me. i listen to alittle bit of everything which is why i want atleast one ported and one sealed. im kinda inbetween on spl and sq so im not going for one specifically. any opinions will be appreciated and ill post a few pics of current system. stock hu which im gonna change in about a month to a jvc adv793

zombies will eat your brains if not decapitaded first

03 mazda protege lxzombies will eat your brains if not decapitaded first

ok got a new problem that i kinda knew was gonna happen. ill tell you what i have done and see what you guys got. i have not upgraded my battery, first off. i have installed 3 kicker l7 12s one sealed 2 ported in trunk, infinity kappas in all four doors and rear deck, four amps total zx150.2 for rear door speakers, zx350.4 for front door speakers and rear deck speakers, zx750.1 for the one 12 in sealed box and zx1500.1 for  the 2 ported 12s. i have upgraded all my grounds in the engine bay to 0gauge. i have also installed hids. my lights dim horribly. i cannot upgrade my alternator. well i can but thats where you guys come in. heres the problem the ecu on third gen proteges only allows 85 amps thru it. it cannot be reprogrammed. if you bypass the ecu for the charging system you get more problems. i have done research on it. so is there another year ecu that i could replace mine with that can be programmed to have a h/o alternator. i really dont wanna take out my ac compressor to make room for second alternator and seperate charging system. any help would be appreciated thanks oh total rms is 2760zombies will eat your brains if not decapitaded first

Not that I know what a 3rd gen Protege is, but 323s etc up until 2002 seem to have a typical alternator. Are you sure you aren't misunderstanding, or reading the babble of idiots? The alternator's output will not go thru the ECU or any part of it. In fact rarely does any modern system monitor current - it is irrelevant. (Ammeters went out of use way last millennium!) From what I understand of those stupid anti-green ECU controlled alternators, they merely cut output under acceleration (so they can burn more fuel later replacing the lost battery charge), but that has nothing to do with current - it simply monitors voltage etc. What in the ECU would be programmed for 85A? Does it monitor current? If so, where? If you have 2760W RMS output, a 300A alternator is desirable but a more common 250A alternator should be ok - it all depends on your average RMS load and if dipping at full output is acceptable at whatever RPM etc. A bigger alternator doesn't always solve the dipping issue - it can be a reaction-time issue. (Apparently some HO alternators are so bad they cause voltage spikes when the load drops off!) But with sch a grunty system, you'd probably be wrecking your battery if it was an AGM close to the amp. I assume yours is a flooded battery, else is far from the amp (hence high resistance to the amp compared to an amp-adjacent AGM, and hence limited current surges).    As to dipping, that can be poor HID regulation - they should be able to withstand drops down to 8V etc. But that can be overcome by ensuring separate power paths (of HIDs etc versus the amp), or adding a battery (next to the HIDs or the amp), or a cap (ditto). Except to protect an AGM battery next to high-current amps - or where a 2nd battery is not desirable - I'd recommend a small AGM battery over a capacitor (eg, a cheap 7AH or 1.2AH AGM should perform better than a more expensive cap).

3rd gen is the last set of proteges they made 1999 thru 2003. ok well after looking alittle further into it to figure out why it has been stated on mazda forums as impossible i came across what i assume is the problem. it has to do with the pcm not the ecu as stated earlier. here is the post i read maybe you can make more sense of it than me.

Trust me, I've been dealing with the horrible charging system in the Pro5 for a while now. First off it's not the ECU you need to worry about it's the PCM that is the biggest culprit with the charging issues. When I first contacted Ohio Generator about getting the high output alternator built I got the "oh no" gasp when I told them it was a Mazda (ironicaly every electrical shop I go to gives me the same gasp when I mention Mazda) the alternator they built me has a chip they added to trick the PCM into "thinking" the factory alternator is still on the car that way I get high amperage which maintains a steady voltage to the batteries evnen when I am playing the stereo. I have just added a Missing Link Audio module < color=#417394>http://www.missinglinkaudio.com which keeps a constant 14.7 volts to the batteries. the PCM only allows about 70% of the alternators output reach the battery so it does not work as hard and the vehicle gets a better mpg rating but the MLA module works in conjunction with the regulater to keep the alternator puting out the voltage you want and not interfering with the computer. its actually a lot more complex than that but I get a headache when they try to explain it to me, haha. Actually, in the new issue of mini trucking magazine there is an article which explains how it works better. So far it is working pretty good.

it may be totall crap i dont know and as this is my only car and i deliver pizza 5 nights a week it would be kinda rough if i have problems.

zombies will eat your brains if not decapitaded first

I'd like to know how the PCM only allows limited current.... Does it reduce the voltage (or current) to the rotor, or does it chop/reduce the actual current from the alternator? Either way, I can't see a big deal replacing the alternator with a normal alternator - excluding of course if the ECU/ECM/PCM detects this and decides it is an unforgivable sin and refuses to behave. IMO that design is flawed. As I said, it burns more fuel than it saves - it is merely a gimmick to provide more acceleration at the expense of consumption. I'll reconsider that when I see validated tests that prove otherwise, or have someone explain adequately.... But keep in mind that the PCM cannot ALWAYS limit the alternator output otherwise the battery will go flat. And it will monitor the voltage for that - NOT the current. [ You cannot determine battery SOC (state of charge) by current other than when it reaches float current (typ 1-2 Amps). And how will an EMS/PCM determine what current is needed by the vehicle? Like I said, ammeters are useless - so is current monitoring. ] Incidentally, if it does charge the battery at 14.7V, I'd be curious why. That is well above recommended (long term) charging voltages, though I can imagine it as a short-term de-sulfation voltage to counter the damage caused by under-supplying system current. Wow - imagine how much energy/power is wasted reconverting sulfates, bubbling the acid, etc - unless they are using LiPo or other battery technologies. (Is battery life a problem for these systems?) As to defeating the system, I'm sure there is a way - and I'd look at tricking the sensor rather than the PCM (since it must monitor external to the PCM itself). But I find it ridiculous if owners cannot add loads like lights, DVDs, phone chargers, fridges, trailers, winches & rail guns. Otherwise you have no option but a separate alternator and battery system solely for the amp. Though I am curious as to (why &) how and the workarounds, I'm not keen to invest much time (ie, waste it pending my enlightenment) since that technology is something I reckon is unnecessary or flawed and I suspect will never effect me (nor will integral smart-keys & security etc). But if there are some readily available expert & succinct references, I am curious enough to investigate... PS - as I understand it, PCM is just their name for EMS or ECU etc. Guaranteed to cause maximum confusion when dealing with charging & power systems that can use PWM which is sometimes referred to as PCM (Pulse Coded Modulation being arguably "equivalent" to Pulse Width Modulation), or simply confused with PCM itself - a common form of digital communications (protocol).

and thats why im confounded. i thought you could just swap an alternator. and that more power would just be ........ more power? anyways i guess im just gonna go have a talk with local mazda mechanic to see whats up as i cant find any hard evidence online. ill let you know what i find. i work a hell of a lot so it may take me a week or so to get back to you.zombies will eat your brains if not decapitaded first

%$#^%%!#@#!! Ok, so the Protege is Tarzan's favorite car - the Mazda tree-to-tree... (LOL). And it seems your 3rd Gen is our 6th Gen.... And I could download the 2002 Mazda Protege (BJ) Workshop Manual from here if I joined/registered... I'll see what I can find. I might meet up with a world-touring mechanic mate tonite that may know something about it (if he LISTENS to my question/s instead of merely regurging the standard common crap I already know!). As usual be wary of info - even from mechanics - especially if electrical. [ The last mechanic I tangled with couldn't answer a 3rd year question (what determines engine oil pressure?) and probably still insists that the torque-power formula is the same for HP (imperial) as it is for kW (metric/ISO). He chickened out of his "torque or power" for best acceleration question, but oddly enough understood charging and batteries and (UIBI) isolation better than most others! ] But looking at (eg) floridaspl.com earlier just highlights the AMAZING crap that comes out of so called experts & experienced... And I have seen the same on other "expert" forums. (But not on the12volt.com of course! Well - not that I seem to recall at the moment....) If you find something - yes, let me know. Or if you want to query something somewhere.... No promises. And I may become unamused with certain sites/info.... (Especially if pages of verbosity with random insights. But I always hate verbosity and rambling....) (LOL!) And if I do get to a wreckers as intended this weekend, I'll try to have a perv at a 1990s 323/Protege. BTW - my $#%#!! cursing is for even bothering to consider writing this reply. Geez I'm a pussy! (... Cat... curiosity...??)

ECU - Engine Control Unit PCM - Powertrain Control Module I'm not sure I agree with the wording regarding improved fuel economy (FE) due to 70% state of charge but it is quite common place to have an alternator that is controlled via the ECU (I use the term ECU because this is what we use at work) So newer systems chase FE gains by monitoring battery state of charge and using sophisticated algorithms, and/or a current sensor on the battery. Essentially predicting or measuring state of charge and trying to reduce the overall work needed by the alternator. With FE cycle tests, state of charge must be maintained to a certain percentage so one can't just run the whole certification cycle (FTP75 in the US case) with the alternator "off" and be lucky to have enough battery left to restart for the 3rd cycle of the test. Oldspark, I am not sure exactly how the ECU is controlling the alternator but I can say it is internal affecting total output. It was explained to me as an ECU controlled voltage regulator, instead of system voltage "closing the loop" like a standard voltage regulator, the ECU is monitoring system voltage and allowing a factor of charge. But really in practice, what an ECU controlled alternator does is allow better management of electrical load changes to the engine transmitted via the alternator. High power consumers, such as headlights, HVAC which have the ability to cause a sag in engine speed especially at idle, can be predicted for and ECU torque management responds accordingly. Same thing happens with A/C engagement on a system with the functionality. A/C is requested at the control head, is routed through the ECU from BCM in most cases, and ECU can add torque needed when the compressor is engaged to limit the "bump" felt during engagement.

Firstly - my %$%#@! reference - see The half-Monty charging system found on some recent Kia and Mazda vehicles (from Motor, May 2002, "Foreign Service" by Dan Marinucci).   I've only read page 1 (of 3) as yet, but so far it seems ok - it even refers to them as the DP types I know of (as opposed to traditional SL). Secondly.... Thanks awd! I too like ECU - even over EMS; but as to PCM ! I certainly understand aircon predictions - they are a few HP - maybe 5HP which is the equivalent of ~3,750W (~260A). But for 2 or 4 35W HIDs? I run/ran 4x100W headlights on my 45 year old 1600cc OHV carby engine without too much concern (except for the 23A alternator!). And even 75A-115A alternators are almost insignificant to aircons etc. But I guess carburetors can utilise the increase vacuum increased fuel to maintain RPM under load (at idle). ECUs could not possibly do that - it would require sophisticated RPM monitoring and maybe voltage transducers. Imagine that - counting pulses and dividing by a time base (where could an ECU get that?) and providing an ADC! And then it would have to vary the duty cycle of the injectors! IMPOSSIBLE! I'm having a dig... A few hours ago I mentioned an idiot in the trade - a then recently graduated electronics etc dude employed in the industry (automotive electrical & ECUs etc) who - over 5 years ago - told me that ECUs could not self tune or learn - something that has been occurring since the 1990s! (It was a relief to find that the industry was a mere 5 years behind me instead of 25 years!) Anyhow, prediction? I think not. Prediction that the engine will stall or labour under load at idle etc - yes.    But prediction of loads? No. And negligible. Rigging of FE? Yes - I can do that too - I just open the circuit that feeds my dash charge light (the alternator's L circuit) depending on the model. [The lack of the L circuit usually means no guarantee that charging will be initiated of charging, but its loss may not kill the alternator's charging. Same with the S circuit. For Bosch, loss of either usually kills charging. On my current Subaru alternator (Mitsibishi), loss of S sends it high (a max of ~15.2V) but I'm unsure what losing L does.] But why would I want too? Better acceleration yes. Better overall fuel economy? I doubt it - I reckon it will be worse. And if I had high impedance injectors - but I'd only ever use low-Z injectors! But to put up with a loss of audio output...? [Not that mine would - my amp would be a constant power load - much like floridaspl seems to argue despite their amps generally behaving like resistive loads (output power increases exponentially with input voltage). Oh - that's right - the current drops under low voltage ONLY because the supply can't keep up!)] Like I say, I think I know what vehicle manufacturers are thinking, but I think they are wrong. Seeing results that show that overall FE has improved will convince me their idea is not wrong, though I'd still question its practicality. (IE - increased unreliability, reduced battery life - and maybe that of other electrics, etc.) Idle speeds are adjusted a done with airconditioners etc - not by decreasing system voltage! Of course, the ECU may decide to cut certain electrical or other loads, but we aren't talking about doing that.... Anyhow, for now I don't see any problem with a Mazda alternator upgrade. Maybe a simple voltage divide to provide the feedback the ECU requires - unless other info else pages 2 or 3 in the above link describe something more complex. And I certainly doubt the Mazda is current-monitoring its battery - not that that should matter much. I can see why the ECU (PCM) needs to be reflashed for a different battery (AGM etc), but that requirement disappears if the "normal" alternator is substituted successfully. And having just read about Odyssey batteries on the ozmazda.com site makes interesting reading with the above in mind - ie, the common desire for HIGH current charging and NOT leaving batteries in a (partial) discharged state. PS - diagram at 97 Mazda Protege 1.5L 120K miles. No charging...