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improperly tuned box


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audioman2007 
Copper - Posts: 580
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Joined: February 20, 2007
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Posted: February 22, 2008 at 8:57 AM / IP Logged  
I just wanted to know what happens to the sub if a ported box is tuned improperly. Lets say a sub needs a box thats tuned to 35Hz. You make the box perfectly BUT you have the port size wrong causing the box to be tuned to 45Hz. What all can happen to the sub?
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 22, 2008 at 9:58 AM / IP Logged  
Nothing will happen to the sub if you set your system up properly.  You will just be robbing yourself of a lot of output.  An enclosure ported at 45Hz will be very boomy sounding,
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stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
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Posted: February 22, 2008 at 10:12 AM / IP Logged  

You should consider that the sub doesn't need any particular box tuning.  It is the listener that needs the tuning and that his aural need is a combination of the sub, the vehicle, and his expectations of how it should sound with his favorite types of music.  A recommendation of "35 Hz Fb for sub A", as defined by the manufacturer, only indicates this:

  • The resultant sound should suit the average user
  • The resultant port size / length can fit the box

Depending on who is marketing the sub, the "in car" blend of sub / box sound and cabin gain may or may not have been tested and accounted for.  And if it were, what vehicle type was used for testing?  Hatchback, sedan with sub in trunk, pickup truck, SUV...?  Those all all unknowns if you are being very general in making box tuning recommendations.

What about damage that can occur?  I believe you may be referring to this with your question.  I'll just preface to say that I have never damaged a driver by using it in a box that was improperly tuned, but I know that it can be destroyed when all the wrong things happen.

A driver can be damaged with the box tuned to 35 Hz and it can be damaged with the Fb at 45 Hz.  There's just much more of a chance that the damage can occur if the box is tuned at the higher freq.  The reason is that, unlike a sealed enclosure, a vented box's ability to damp the driver is limited by its tuning frequency.  When a sub is tuned high, the result can be a huge boost in SPL where the full advantage of port output at the loudest freqs can be realized.  Somewhat below that tuning freq, however, the box loses ability to damp the driver's cone excursion.  Of course, there is a lot more content below 45 Hz than there is below 35 Hz.  An SPL competitor will take precautions to enable a filter below that Fb in order to protect from expected damage.

In the ordinary world of street use, I don't see this as so much of a factor.  I believe it is typically a combination of misjudgements and poor installation / setup skills that results in damaged subs.  Combine the high voice coil heat of a clipped signal with an unloaded vented box on a subwoofer that was not built to take such abuse, and there is your fried sub.  With careful setup to all details (except port length) and a reasonably light touch on the volume control, one should be able to continually use the imporperly tuned vented sub although at the expense of listening to a boomy sound output.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
audioman2007 
Copper - Posts: 580
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Posted: February 22, 2008 at 10:48 AM / IP Logged  
Ok. What do you mean by a "boomy output"? Let me go into further details with everything to make this as easy to understand as possible. The subs I have are 2 12" earthquake DBX single 4 ohm coils. These are the old old black subs. They dont even make these in single coils which is why I dont want to ruin them. Right now they are in a dual bandpass box. I dont like the way they sound at low hertz. They produce the bass a "tad" but sounds more like very soft air sounds.  A friend of mine bought the same exact sub (just 1 though) but his is a dual 4 ohm coils. HHe bought this at the same exact place I bought mine. His box was made by that shop for that sub. The box is a ported box. He sold me the sub and box for $20 (just wanted to get rid of it). The sub works perfectly fine. The only defect is the cone was cracked. Hey for $20, I simply used super glue. I took that box's measurements and made 2 identical boxes. I cant find the exact measurments needed for that sub but I am assuming the box was made correctly. The new DBx's (red ones) have a fs of 35. So I figured mine are the same. Now to the amp. I have a Kole Audio 2000 watt 2 channel amp. Yes before anyone says anything, I know Kole is not a great brand and I know that amp is not pushing 2000 watts. I love the amp though so Im fine with it. The amp also has a subsonic filter which will work perfectly for the ported boxes I made. I have the gain set at about 1/2 way give and take. The subs currently do not sound distorted in the bandpass box. The amp doesnt run into clipping whatsoever. I simply just want to put these 2 ported boxes in place of the bandpass box. first off, will I need to adjust the gain on the amp? Also, with what my amp can trulely put out, will I mess up the subs in the ported box's? The subs can handle 400RMS/800Peak. Need anymore info, let me know.
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:40 PM / IP Logged  

So you are actually asking a very different question I see.

First, "boomy" means an unnatural peak in response that causes the system to sound like it's playing one note all the time.   Of course, if you are used to the crap sound of a bandpass system, then you know what this sounds like.  It is very useful to an SPL competitor as their intent is to produce a single tone max dbSPL, but for music or general listening boomy systems tend to sound like a belching blue whale.

Second, as to your use of the earthquake DBX subwoofers, you will need to contact the manufacturer to get the T/S parameters if you care to construct a proper enclosure for them, but since it sounds more like you don't really care (superglue a speaker cone?) then go for it with whatever you want to try.  The info I can find about the DBx 12 indicates is has an fs more like 27Hz, not 35, and they are designed for use in bass reflex (ported) alignments.

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audioman2007 
Copper - Posts: 580
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 20, 2007
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Posted: February 22, 2008 at 2:41 PM / IP Logged  

Actually to be honest with you, I like the way my bandpass sounds. Maybe its because I have had this box for over 6 years and now I am used to it. It does the bassy music good. i like the way it sounds with rock/heavy metal music. But it just doesnt produce the very low bass.

So what causes "boomy" bass? Is it just a box that is not tuned properly? I seriously would like to test out the sub I had bought from the friend first before I go and rip my subs out. Now since that sub is a dual coil then each coil's RMS is 200 watts. My fiance has a 2 channel jensen I think 580 watts. Could I possibly mount the sub I had bought in one of the ported boxes I made, then run the speaker wire out the front of the port (since I have the box made for a single coil sub) then wire it to her amp and see how it sounds? Or wont that work because of it being tested on her amp and not mine?

noobgalore 
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Joined: February 12, 2008
Posted: February 22, 2008 at 6:19 PM / IP Logged  

Did you not put speaker terminals in your box is this why you want to run it through the port? You can test it on her amp and it will tell you what the sub and box will sound like ran from that amp. 

So what happened to the question about the box being tuned to 45hz because with a tuning frequency that high you will lose out on a lot of lower notes. I generally tune most of my daliy driver boxes to 32hz and have been very happy with the sound output.

audioman2007 
Copper - Posts: 580
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 20, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: February 22, 2008 at 7:29 PM / IP Logged  

The ported boxes I made for my subs only have a single pair of terminals since my subs are single coils. But the sub I had bought from my friend is a dual coil, so thats why I would run those wires out the front of the port. So testing the sub on her amp just to see how it sounds wont help me out much because my amp is alot more powerful than hers?

stevdart 
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Posted: February 22, 2008 at 7:47 PM / IP Logged  

It doesn't make any difference how powerful the amp is that you are testing with.  You have a volume control on the deck, right?  But a couple of things you seem to be stuck on:

A dual voice coil sub has the same power capacity as its sibling single voice coil sub.  The sub itself is rated to withstand power, not each coil in itself.  Look at the woofer wiring diagrams on this site to see how you should wire the coils to get the desired impedance.  With the coils wired together you will still use the single set of terminals on the box.

You asked what is boomy bass again after DYohn explained that it sounds like "it's playing one note all the time".  Did you miss that?  High tuning tends to do that because the lower freqs are dropped off out of the radar.  When you don't hear the lower freqs and at the same time hear the higher 50-ish Hz freqs amplified by port output, the result is described as "boomy".  That's because, well, its boomy.

Tuning "improperly" does not always equate to tuning too high.  You can tune too low for your expected result.

Your description of having the gains set to about the halfway point tells us that you have no idea how gains are supposed to be set.  Learning that important step is the order of the day when you are working with your system.  But don't mess with the gains on your friend's amp that you are testing with.  If you are testing in his/ her vehicle, just go on the assumption that the amplifier has been set to match the deck output (which is what setting gain is all about).  You don't need to rock the house to find out if the sub sounds the way you would like it to sound, which means you don't necessarily have to crank the volume through the roof while you're testing.  Wrong gain setting problems show up, typically, at close to full volume.

Just make sure you are putting a proper load on the amp when you test the sound of your sub in the vented box.  The amp manual will tell you what its minimum impedance has to be, so use the wiring diagrams and wire the coils together as the diagrams indicate.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
audioman2007 
Copper - Posts: 580
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 20, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: February 22, 2008 at 8:08 PM / IP Logged  

I know I am alittle flacky when it comes to setting gains, I will admit that. But I do know when I am driving an amp too hard. The amp is set at 1/2. It does not clip, It does not overheat. My old amp I had the gain set to 3/4 and for the 5 years that I had it, I never had a problem with it clipping or overheating. I am not going to change the settings on her amp. I just want to see how the sub sounds in the box's I made. I dont have the manual for that amp either so the safest way to wire that amp is 1 coil per channel. That way I dont have to worry about messing the amp up. I will listen for boomy throughout the song. How can I tell if a sub is boomy or not. You said it will sound like its playing only 1 note. Does that mean no matter if its a 50Hz or a 80Hz, it will all sound the same? To put it simple, I just want to see how the sub sounds in my box. I dont have any specs on these subs whatsoever. The box that my friends sub was in, I made 2 exactly the same. He said the sub sounded great when he had it in his car. That was a long time ago so i dont even recall how it sounded. But I dont want to rip my subs out of my bandpass, throw them in the ported boxes and hook them up to my amp only to find out that the box's are junk. Instead I would take the sub he sold me and test it on my fiance's amp in 1 of my boxes. Would I be able to take notice to any "improper tuned" reguardless of the amp I try it on?

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