too much amp draw visonik v6611 and v3909

Well this is my first post so it's an introduction and a cry for help.

I have a 2004 Nissan Xterra with the following 15lbs of crap stuffed into a 5lb bag...

Visonik v6611 running (2) pair of Kicker K65.2 6 1/2" 2way comps on the front two chans (2ohms stereo), (2) pair of Kicker KS6930 6x9" 3ways on the middle chans (2 ohms stereo), and (1) Kicker 8" L7 dual 4ohm (chan 5&6 bridged, 2ohm mono) 9 speakers total or 21 speakers if you want to look at it that way?

Visonik v3909 running (2) Kicker CompVR's 12" dual 4ohm, wired down to 2ohm each, then back up to 4ohm total (chan 1 & 2 bridged, 4 ohm mono) 2 more speakers however you want to look at it.

This is going to be hard to describe but:

big 3 + some (in addition to stock wiring)

0G wire from Alt to batt (optima yellow top), 0G from batt to stinger SPD4AGU fuse block/voltmeter input #1

2G wire to battcap 400 input #2

0G wire from output #1 to "T" junction #1

2G wire to 3f cap to "T" junction #1, 2G to Amp from "T" junction #1

0G wire from output #1 to "T" junction #2

2G wire to 3f cap to "T" junction #2, 2G to Amp from "T" junction #2

(yes I need to finish running 0G to amps but I ran out of 0G and don't have any 0 awg to 4 awg terminals)

I have upgraded the garbage stock 70 A alternator to a mean green 180 A

Imagine this, my lights not only still dim but if I crank it I can almost shut them off...

So here's the story: When I ordered and paid for the amps the owner of the company sent me an email saying something to the effects of they accidently left those on their website but didn't think they still had them because they had been discontinued due to a lawsuit against visonik. He said he would check the warehouse but if they didn't have them then he would give me my money back. Well he had the 6611 so he shipped it but the other he couldn't find. (the other actually being 2 steps lower than the 3909, I'll get to this) so he says he thinks he might have one a step up and long story short, nope. So he says he called a friend at Visonik who still had a 3909 (the 2nd step up) on their demo wall and sent it to me. It was used but for the same price I got 2 steps up, cool. Both of these amps have worked very well for me over the years but at first I had them wired will less speakers. (1)pair 6 1/2's front 2 chans (1) pair 6 1/2's middle 2 chans (1) pair 6x9's rear 2 chans, same two cvr's on the 3909. Needless to say I am pulling a lot more amps now. I would like to continue running all of my speakers but the current draw is just too much. I don't want to have to get a custom alternator since the one I have is more or less brand new. I would get another battery but it won't solve my problem only mend it. So do I lose some speakers? get rid of these amps for non-HC amps? suck it up and get another even bigger alternator? I would sell them but these pigs are BIG and hard to mount by design and used so I fear I wouldn't get much for them. If you haven't seen these types of amps, they look like rack mounted PA system amps but the lids come off and they are just like any other amp with the covers off. The covers are just bigger than the amp. I would post a pic but I can't do that right now. I would love to have smaller, easier to mount, less current amps but doesn't everyone?

Sorry for such a confusing 1st post but I have been working on this car for years (between deployments) and it has been a huge problem after another after another it seems. I am tempted to sell the whole vic and start over from scratch! (even though I love my X)

thanks in advance all

slantyshanty wrote: Imagine this, my lights not only still dim but if I crank it I can almost shut them off...

So with audio off, when cranking, you lights really really dim? If so, you may have..... - bad connections (ground etc) - faulty starter (worn brushes, shorted turn etc) - stuffed or flat battery. Unless your amps or other loads are pulling very high power with nil volume.... Your ground wires should at least equal the capacity of your power cables. For cranking, ensure a good battery- to engine ground cable. Have you checked the condition (open circuit voltage) of the Optima and BattCap? (After sitting a while.) Maybe start by disconnecting the BattCap in case that's failed (it's merely a battery) - that might be draining the system. [Does it get hot? (LOL!)] As to a bigger alternator - the alternator needs to replace the power used by your systems, plus a bit more for battery inefficiency. The best guide is an (in dash) voltmeter (across the battery - not the ignition). And since you are already running dual batteries, why not move the yellow top to the amps (where it should be) and use a normal battery for cranking etc. (Having a low-ESR battery (ie, AGMs, like Optima etc) remote from the BIG load defeats much of its capability.) And consider battery isolation - especially if it turns out the BattCap or Optima have damaged each other.

"Crank it" meaning volume...? M.E.C.P & First-Class

Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

I'm sorry, poor choice of words. Yes, by crank it I meant turning my stereo way up. I have tried removing various componants like the caps and the battcap and just one amp at a time. I can tell a major difference with all that connected and without. It's just these amps. They are freakin hungry! I just don't know if they are worth everything I have done over the years to get to this point and still have power issues. I have seen much louder systems not so much as make the dash lights dim a bit on the big notes. Then again, they weren't pushing so many speakers total. especially at 2ohms. oh, and I have upgraded all the power system wires to much bigger than stock. I knew I would be pulling lots of amps in the future (my X is on it's way to being a rock crawler) so it will have to power a winch, lots of lights, on board air compressor, laptop/cameras/dvr system, etc. The alternator is new, the optima is new, battcap is a few years old, but i have been deployed a bit of that so it's had some time off. i have had the battery and battcap tested and they are fine. caps? i can't really test those other than they charge like they are supposed to and the dimming lights are much worse when they aren't connected. My problem is I live in the desert and I rarely ever have my windows up. I drive 65+mph for 45 mins one way every day and I want to hear the words of my music, not just feel it. I'm not an ass who bumps his system in housing areas but on the highway it's going to be up for sure. Can I place my multimeter in place of my fuses to see what my amps are pulling? i know it's no 0G wire but on peak hold I will at least be able to see what my amps want. I have a feeling I can pull over 180A easy!

Check the ground return resistance.  The Hot Topics forum has two threads with good information on how to do that.Support the12volt.com

If you have a 180A multimeter, yes. But I suspect not. (Most are 10A & you'll blow the DMM fuse.) I still reckon disconnect the BattCap for now. I doubt that it is doing much good - or rather, it probably won't be helping the lights NOT dimming. (Connect it back later. If fully charged, it should last a year or 2 without charging, but just in case...) And ok - crank as in volume. (Remind me to abuse you later.) In that case it is wiring or the alternator not keeping up. A voltmeter is the ultimate test. But to check you amp currents (in Amps, not in head units), either a shunt else an appropriate sensor. Current shunts may be $2o or more. I use a $10 50A shunt to measure starter motors (from ~140A to 250A or more) and 50A is adequate for short term use. Generally I'll only cranking (the starter!) for a minute or less - not enough time for the shunt to heat up. (The 50A rating is long term; it is overheating that will destroy it.) I've been meaning to buy a few 200A or 600A DC sensors for about $20-$25 each (USA - DigiKey, DC Hall Effect sensors - loop type, 5V supply etc) for monitoring and zero-resistance protection for hi-current car systems (like winches & audio - you'd think the latter would use zero-resistance fuses wouldn't you?). Both work similar - eg, a 200A shunt or sensor might be 1mV/A (or 1 milli-Ohm for a resistive shunt) which means 1mV per Amp. So 200A = 200mV. You set your DMM to the 200mV or 2V DC scale and read off the current. Note that for non-resistor type sensors (eg, Hall & loop sensors), it is important to specify it's for DC - most are for AC. Or there is always approximation from the cabling or fuses. If their resistance is known (eg, if 0G is 0.0983 Ohms per 1,000' and you have a 5' run, that's 0.0983/1000 x 5 = 5x0.0983 micro-Ohm = 0.4915 uR (u=Ohm) or 0.4915 uV per Amp - ie, 49.15 mV or ~50mV per 100A (from V=IR). In fact many "remote" ammeters work that way - a voltmeter or DMM is placed across the ends of a ground strap or battery cable and calibrated to read in Amps. If you load exceeds the alternator output (at a particular RPM etc), then the alternator voltage will drop from (say) its max of 14.4V (or 14.2V whatever) to the battery voltage. The battery voltage can be anything from ~13.8V if it still has surface charge (after being at 13.8-14.4V), then drop to ~12.7V (a battery full voltage) and the drop lower firstly due to internal resistance (ie, a fully charged Optima yellow may have 0.003 Ohms internal resistance; if it discharges at 100A, that means V=IR = 100 x 0.003 = 0.3V drop hence, (say) 12.7-0.3 = 12.4V at its terminals, not 12.7). So if the alternator is under supplying by 100A, instead of a 13.8V to 14.4V system voltage, it drops to 12.4V (nearly 2V less which means almost a 40% power drop for traditional lights etc); and a 1.5-2V voltage drop has a big effect on halogen lights (more than for tungsten etc; but HIDs should not be effected). As the battery discharges, not only does its (open circuit aka internal) voltage decrease, but its internal resistance increases thereby leading to a spiralling doom for audio systems (maybe clipping etc). So in this short reply, you may see some of the issues. You see the effect of a 0.003 Ohm battery resistance. Add to that the cabling resistances, fuses, distribution blocks, and every connection that adds a small bit of resistance..... that includes ground paths.    You may also see why a low ESR battery can be severely compromised if far away from the load/amp. (ESR = Effective Series Resistance. It is close enough to the battery's internal resistance. And a battery's ESR is quoted for a fully charged (and new) battery (usually at room temperature).     So, figure out if the alternator is under supplying. Then figure out if distribution resistances can be decreased further. And by placing the yellow top at the amp you can concentrate your real heavy wiring there (shorter hence cheaper runs of bluddy expensive cable). A normal battery can be used for the rest of the vehicle. (Typical ESRs being ~0.015 Ohm or less. And as I recall, the rule of thumb being that an AGM battery has about half the ESR of an equivalent capacity flooded (wet) lead-acid battery.) Now, there was something I was going to complain about.....? ... No, it's not about DY sneeking in with a 5-word reply that has a huge probability of negating all I said above (ito usefulness for OP's solution; it still serves as a ref for my future scribblings....)

To keep it like KISS, ya know....  I would upgrade from that sorry Visonik to a real amplifier and start all over again.  I, too, have spent furious hours trying to make a poor amp work like a pro.  It's not worth it. 

And , of course while you're starting from the beginning again, read those grounds as DYohn has advised.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

That's what I'm afraid of... need new amps.

Did some research today (while I should have been sleeping, I work nights) Apparently those amps really like 16v but will work at 12~14v.

Amplifiers DO NOT like 16 volts.  The owners of some amplifiers like 16 volts.

Yeah - those going for SPLs with amplifiers with crap PSUs.