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highvoltamps 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: January 28, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: December 01, 2013 at 9:13 PM / IP Logged  

Looking for suggestions on a competition system I'm installing in my 04 Silverado SS. I've been doing custom systems in my vehicles for 20 years now and never competed. Would like to do this one in IASCA and local meets. I'm an electrician and do my systems for the listening enjoyment and pride in the custom touch. My main concern is the front stage setup. Will the door and kick panel components work together without cancellation issues only using one tweeter(either in the kick on-axis or the factory A pillar off-axis location which will probably work best with these tweeters)? I'm planning on using the passive crossovers that came with the components since they are good x-overs and bad ass on display. Could easily go active with my equipment and an option that I might consider if it improves the sound quality and stage. I'm using 5.25 component Q-forms that I'm going to beef up with glass and haven't decided to seal it up or vent to somewhere. The doors with have baffles installed along with a completely deadened door. The whole truck will be deadened using dynamat, ensolite, MLV, 3M thinsulate and Lord Fusor acoustical expanding foam for the hard to reach areas. I made two seperate seal MDF boxes down-firing under the rear bench seat. Plenty of power, dual alternator setup with a 350 amp alternator dedicated to the system and 2000 watt inverter. 1/0 wiring to a Kinetik HC2400 in a custom battery box underneath the amp rack. The Xtant X1001 has a 1 farad capacitor in parallel within 6 inches of the amp. All factory grounds upgraded even though it wasn't needed for the system since there's a common ground point. I have an Audiocontrol SA-3050A for tuning. All interconnects are Monster 401XLN's, component wiring Monster S402 12 gauge for mids and 14 gauge for the tweeters and 10 gauge for the subs. Also what do you guys think about 4x6 plate speakers for the rear doors off the HU, Is it worth doing for stage? Here's the equipment I'm using,

Pioneer DEH-P9800BT

Audiocontrol Four.1

Xtant P500A

Xtant X604

Xtant X1001  

MB Quart QSD 213 5.25 components - kick panels

MB Quart QSD 216 6.5 components - doors

2 - JL 10W6V2

Rear Doors - have two choices if worth installing

Infinity Kappa 462.7cfp 4x6 plates

Boston Acoustics 746 4x6 plates

I appreciated any advice or suggestions and will help you out if you have any electical questions. Thanks

Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: December 02, 2013 at 2:15 AM / IP Logged  
So in the doors are you just planning on using your 6 inch mid bass and not using the tweeters all together out of that set, and if thats the case how are you planning on setting the crossover points on those to work in conjunction with the 5 1/4 in the kick? Also I would not bother with the rear speakers unless you are planning on just using them for rear passengers and turning them off for judging. The problem I have with your set up is that if you just use your passive crossovers that came with the speakers than there are gonna be over lapping frequencies between the kicks and the doors. Lastly IMO I would cut the audio control 4.1 out of the equation all together, there is no benefit to your system IMO and it just leaves you another point for noise to enter the signal path.
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
soundnsecurity 
Gold - Posts: 2,711
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 10, 2008
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: December 02, 2013 at 7:44 AM / IP Logged  
agreed, as long as your radio has a decent built in eq and crossover then that audiocontrol is likely doing more to hurt your sound than help it, keeping your system as simple as possible and properly set up is usually the best way to have nice sound without the head aches that usually come along with a more complex system.
also agreed about the components,the fact that you are running different sized component speakers means that the crossover will likely be designed to a different crossover point. even though they are speakers in the same brand and series, there are always differences between mids of different sizes. so you might end up causing some audible issues from having speakers playing together but with different crossover points on each.
highvoltamps 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: January 28, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: December 02, 2013 at 1:46 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the insight guys. My interconnect wiring is as follows, HU non-fading pre-out to Four.1 input, Four.1 4ch outputs to the P500A, P500A rear output to the X1001 and the front output to the X604 briged channels. The reasons I was using for the Four.1 was to simplify eq tweating from flat depending on the music instead of using the HU and it also has a line driver built in and was going to use the aux input instead of the HU. Still a bad idea on the Four.1?

As for the components, I haven't decided yet which spot to put the tweeters, kicks on-axis or a-pillar off-axis. Heard these tweeters are better off-axis, will have to try both and see how it sounds. Would it work if I used the passive X-overs for the one pair of components and active on the pair of midranges to match?   

Ravendarat 
Platinum - Posts: 2,806
Platinum spacespace
Joined: February 23, 2004
Location: Canada
Posted: December 02, 2013 at 6:54 PM / IP Logged  
Firstly IMO I would still scrap the 4.1 but thats just an opinion based on the reasons I stated earlier, I just don't think you need it. As for the speakers I would go off axis as well as the little bit of time I have spent using them I found that that WAS a better solution. As for the crossovers, you could use them passive and active like you said but you are gonna wanna make sure you have a way to cut off the signal going to the passive crossovers for the 5 1/4 so that they don't play the same frequency as the 6 1/2 so in a sense you are gonna low pass the 6 1/2 and bandpass the 5 1/4 using the passive crossovers AND the crossover on the deck or the amp. Does this all make sense?
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
highvoltamps 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: January 28, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: December 03, 2013 at 4:00 AM / IP Logged  

Makes total sense, I was hoping for a different option on the Four.1. I already made the custom aluminum polished faceplate to hold the single din and eq. I hear ya on how it might complicate things, too much equalizing going on. Although it has an on/off button for the equalize and I wanted to go balanced line inputs to the Xtant equipment. Here's an article I came across a while back,   http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ti.com%2Flitv%2Fpdf%2Fsloa068&ei=To-dUsm5Ns7lsAS7kICQDA&usg=AFQjCNGyY3Hl5_-zfGMJcWTz8AVbov4iJQ   Let me know what you think.. 

Now for the components, trying to give some power to these and utilize the X604 to the fullest. Was going to bi-wire both sets to get 2 ohm at 150W to each channel but now it's back to 75W a channel for active. To make this work I'll have to make one set of channels for the 6.5's and get a little bit more power at 3.3 ohms. I have two full sets of SIP frequency chips for the xtants, should I use 50HZ for the 6.5's and your saying I should use the x-over on the amp for the passives too instead of full range setting? Also what SIP should I use for the JL 10W6V2's, thinking 30HZ.. I agree with you from research about these tweeters being better off-axis and should put them in the factory A-pillars. Thinking about bagging the Q-forms and make fiberglass kicks to just hold the 5.25's. Thanks again for all your help, want to get this right the first time around.   

highvoltamps 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: January 28, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: December 03, 2013 at 4:31 AM / IP Logged  
Don't know why I said 50HZ on the 6.5's, long night at work.. How about 100HZ on them?
highvoltamps 
Member - Posts: 5
Member spacespace
Joined: January 28, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: December 04, 2013 at 4:37 AM / IP Logged  

Wow, just noticed my numbers were off last night and I meant bi-amp the components..

More like 50 to 60Hz for the 10's(fs 28.5Hz) and 90 to 100Hz for the 6.5's(fs 49Hz)

I also have a set of ZR525-CSi 5.25" components that I could use in the kick panels and keep everything passive and bi-amp the woofers together. I could decide which tweeters I like in the two positions. What do you guys think?


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