kfr01 wrote:
Doing some searching. Gosh, not much decent out there about the AP mat concept.
http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/apmats.htm
one link I was able to find...
From that link: "In essence, you have a very large enclosure, the trunk, with a resistive element that controls and damps the energy transfer."
That sounds pretty good to me if I replace the wood "trunk" with "door." :-) |
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I can't say I disagree - there ISN'T much, is there? But in my experience (which I will admit is minimal in this arena) aperiodic damping is best left to lower frequencies. The aperiodic damping characteristics of a Variovent, or the like, is restrictive at the higer frequencies of the vent's passband, gradually "loosening up" as the frequency goes down - it gets more lossy the lower the frequency it is reproducing - thus allowing more air movement through the vent at the place it is needed most - the lows... I think you COULD use it in a mid-bass situation, but I have a sneaking suspicion you will have trouble finding something "off-the-shelf" that will be lossy enough at a high enough frequency to do you any real good. This is where the tuning I referred to in my previous post will become mandatory.
kfr01 wrote:
Another:
http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/education/glossary/A.htm
"Aperiodic refers to a type of bass-cabinet loading. An aperiodic enclosure type usually features a very restrictive, (damped), port. The purpose of this restrictive port is not to extend bass response, but to yeild a smoother response pattern by lowering the Q of the system and reducing the impedance peak at resonance. Most restrictive ports are damped with quantities of sound absorbtive material." |
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OK, and what is this guy telling me that you and I don't already know. Thinking about it, I cannot see WHY everybody says "make the box this tiny..." Why? Wouldn't the better way to go be like this: Aim for a given Qts in your sealed system, test the enclosure, locate resonant peak, tune aperiodic damping plug for said peak, install. This is the way I think I would do it. The bother of having to build a perfect IB (impossible, as you know), enclose a very small volume on the back of it, install big, lossy vent, sacrifice efficiency, play music... too much effort for me. I know, you are asking for you, and I do firmly believe that you will probably end up with really good results, eventually. Will it be worth the effort for you? By the time you spend all of the money on parts (glass, wood, what have you) and you consider the value of your time, why not get a good, digital, true parametric EQ, and fix the issues you are having?
kfr01 wrote:
Then I compare the advantages / disadvantages of the IB alignment to the AP.
http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/rac-faq_4.html
The disadvantages of IB being:
"1 Requires that a good seal be obtained between front and rear of driver. In a car, this can be quite difficult and may require the installer to remove trim panels to plug any holes that would let energy "bleed through".
"2 The responsibility for damping cone motion rests solely on the driver's suspension. As fatigue sets in, this becomes a critical issue in infinite baffle set-ups."
It SEEMS that AP would both reduce the bleed and help control the driver's suspension.
This one is a bit juicier, but still lacking big time:
http://www.maximacar.com/aperiodic.htm
At least the characteristics of the Extremis seem to fit: low fs, low qts, high xmax. |
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Read this one again - http://www.mobileaudio.com/rac-faq/rac-faq_4.html#SEC85 You missed the part about being a BIG driver. The Extremis is not... Here are two lines quoted from this same article: 1) You should probably only get an aperiodic membrane if you've got money to burn, lots of amplifier power, some big subs, a sedan, a desire for trunk space, and no wish to boom. If your tastes lean towards bass-heavy booming, as opposed to well-recorded acoustic instruments, you're not going to be pleased with the result. and number 2) An aperiodic membrane is one part of a type of subwoofer enclosure. It is an air-permeable sheet which has frequency-dependent acoustical resistance properties. The original design goes back to Naim, for use in home systems, but has been applied by several individuals and companies in car audio.
All of this really confirms my feelings about keeping the mid-bass restricted to the vanilla flavored "IB" of the door... I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but I guess I am a defeatist...
kfr01 wrote:
Getting warmer:
http://www.elitecaraudio.com/article.php?sid=18
Wow. Yes. I'm not sure how accurate that guy was, but he at least gave a DIY way to accomplish this.
I think the AP door concept sounds like a worthwhile experiment.
I still haven't seen any negatives other than: (1) efficiency and (2) sealed is better.
Since it is highly unlikely I'll ever get the right sized sealed enclosure in my door this AP concept might be the winner.
Feedback? Haemphyst, my midbass minded friend? What say you?
If nothing else I have a few nice links gathered in one place so others looking can get some AP info. :-) |
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Fiberglass insulation does NOT work... this much I remember from my tinkering of years ago. (This is about all I remember) I think we discovered that it was not stable enough thermally speaking. There were many anomalies discovered. I will see if I can locate some of my notes, and get them to you. We tried many different thicknesses of glass, various packing densities, and other adjusted parameters, and we were never really able to get good results. This might be why we simply dropped the experiments then. Discouraging, I guess it was. There's that famous defeatist attitude again. LOL
There is a BUNCH of contradicting information out there. The one thing I do get from everything I was able to find, is that they sound really good... If you can make it work, by all means, go for it, and let everybody know how it all comes out...
(BTW, I filtered some of your line spacing only to minimize the space occupied by my response.)
Some interesting info I came across while studying for this thread...
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=aperiodic+damping&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt
http://www.northcreekmusic.com/MAPD1.htm
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."