enable door handle unlock button?

Sorry for this long post, but I want to make sure I give as much info about my request/question/problem... Ok...I've posted some info previously on the ADS iDatalink forum ( http://www.12voltdata.com/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=1451) about my 2009 Kia Borrego, and the trouble of trying to get remote start for it and not lose one of my smartkeys to the install. Well, now that ADS has a setup that works with my Kia ( http://www.12voltdata.com/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=3069), that lets me keep both of my smartkeys, and lets me choose a remote starting system I like, I am ready to have the install done. I have talked some with the installer, and here is where we stand: - FOB & door handle unlock button are disabled when vehicle are running. The door handle button isn't "dead", but just disabled. The vehicle will actually warn me with a 3 second beep if I press the button while the vehicle is running, so I know that it is still monitoring the button somewhat. I don't know if the FOB is actually recognized any or not, since I don't get feedback. - We know we can do a basic install which would give me a 2nd one-button FOB. I would use this 2nd FOB to remote start the vehicle, and to unlock the doors when I go out to the vehicle. But... - I don't want to use a 2nd FOB, because that would require me to take the 2nd FOB out to unlock my doors when the vehicle is running, due to the fact that the vehicle disables the input from the FOB and door handle button while running. I do not like this. I have used the door handle button to unlock my doors for over a year now. It would be hard (mentally) to not have this anymore. The whole idea to me of a smartkey system is that I don't have to find my keys to use my vehicle. I don't mind pushing the button to start the vehicle while the keys are still hanging up in the house, but once I put them in my pocket, I don't want to take them back out until I get back home. No...I'm not lazy, but I have become accustomed to the smartkey luxury. - We know we can do an install of a remote start system that will let me use the factory FOB (monitoring the door locks for 3 lock commands sent from my FOB). This leaves an issue...Since my doors are locked, and the vehicle running, my factory FOB & door handle button will not work now to unlock the doors. I would have to use my physical key to unlock the door to get in. Again...no, since that defeats the purpose of the smartkey system. - Now...I really don't care if the factory FOB buttons will unlock the doors, once the engine is running, since I don't want to pull my FOB out anyway. I only care that the door handle button would work to unlock my door as normal, so that when I remote start the vehicle, and once it is warmed/cooled off, I walk up to the door and push the door handle button as normal, and it unlocks my door the same as when the engine isn't running. - My thoughts...Well, the door handle button does accept input, since it beeps when the vehicle is running, but WHY is it disabled from actually unlocking the door??? I have looked very closely at the schematics for the Borrego, hoping to find a way to fool the system into thinking that the vehicle is not running, so that the door handle switch would still work, but I am not finding the exact spot that is stopping it. I have read of some others that have been able to "fix" this issue with their vehicle (not a Kia though), so that gives me some hope that I might find a way to do it with mine. - I am aware that using my factory FOB is supposed to limit my range for remote start, but honestly, I'm getting 250 ft very easily with it, so I will be happy with that. In 20 years of having vehicles with remote start, I've never needed a long range remote. Usually just needing to start the vehicle from inside the house to the driveway, especially during the winter. - I thought about the suggestion from someone else about using a relay to monitor the door handle button and to unlock the doors anyway when pressed. I don't see how this could really work properly, since this would probably set off the alarm, and also, it would allow anyone to just walk by and press the button and unlock the door, even without the smartkey. So...I come to you for help. Really, I don't believe in the "can't be done" answers, even though it may be the truth. I'm looking for suggestions. Does anyone have any suggestions? Any of you deal with this smartkey system extensively? Like I said, I have the detailed schematics from the http://www.kiatechinfo.com/ website, but just having trouble finding that one spot in them that shows how/why the door handle button is being disabled. I'm also open to any other suggestions of any 3rd party equipment that might do what I am wanting. Just point me to it. Thanks! Butch Handy

Vehicle is a 2009 Kia Borrego Limited.

You are not finding that "one spot" because most likely it doesn't exist.  Todays cars are much more advanced then cars of the past and all the different parts of the car are working together and talking to each other.  There are far less discreet inputs and far more digital messages. 

Your problem most likely stems from the fact that the car already thinks you are inside it and that you've started it.  From a design standpoint why would you want to unlock the doors if you are already inside the car?  The smart key systems are designed to monitor multiple keys being present, but at some point you have to draw the line and disable functionality of multiple keys inside antenna range.

One option would be to use the wiring from the door switch and the status output of your alarm to make a system that would unlock the doors when you push the button but ONLY if the remote start is active.  This would create a security loophole but only when the remote start is on.  Depending on the bypass and take over requirements this may or may not allow someone to drive off with the car. 

Kevin Pierson

The only possibilty i can think of would be a version of Kevins idea. If you can locate the pulse from the handle button(which is probably only in the door) you may be able to diode isolate it and send a signal to the Idatalink unlock wire. Run it thru a relay to only work when the Rs is on. Still, it would bug me to know my car is open when running.

I thought today i was going to try the new HK2 module in a 2011 Sonata only to find the car had regular keys when i arrived. The new Lexus/Toyota module actually turns the RS off when the door is opened, while the Nissan module does not(it runs on a timer until you hit the start button). I would be curious as to how this HK2 works, as it may be the difference of whether the car is running when the first thief jumps in.

As for making it only work when it sees you near the car with the factory fob, my bet is it's not possible unless the Idatalink unit allows it. They did do this for the old 40 bit Toyota units and it worked great.

Mike M2

Tech Manager

CS Dealer Services

Absolutely agree with you Kevin, the disgusted look on customer's faces when they think it's my fault because the data control doesn't let me achieve what THEY want!

Howie - in their defense they are correct - it is YOUR fault!   :)Kevin Pierson

Well you can't exactly tell the customer he's an ignorant devil though I do somewhat give the basic lecture on data switching and "when the module comes out" I'll let you know.

Well you can't exactly tell the customer he's an ignorant devil though I do somewhat give the basic lecture on data switching and "when the module comes out" I'll let you know.

KPierson wrote: Your problem most likely stems from the fact that the car already thinks you are inside it and that you've started it.  From a design standpoint why would you want to unlock the doors if you are already inside the car?  The smart key systems are designed to monitor multiple keys being present, but at some point you have to draw the line and disable functionality of multiple keys inside antenna range. One option would be to use the wiring from the door switch and the status output of your alarm to make a system that would unlock the doors when you push the button but ONLY if the remote start is active.  This would create a security loophole but only when the remote start is on.  Depending on the bypass and take over requirements this may or may not allow someone to drive off with the car.

Thanks for the reply... I understand somewhat of what you say about "From a design standpoint why would you want to unlock the doors if you are already inside the car?", but I also look at that another way: From a design standpoint, why would the auto maker want to keep me from LOCKING/UNLOCKING my doors from outside the car if the car is already running? There are a LOT of people that go out and start their vehicle in the mornings to warm it up, (the inside of the car...not the engine), or cool the inside down, before they get in and drive off. Why are some of the auto makers stopping us from securing our vehicle when we do this? I just want to be able to secure my vehicle when the motor is running, and then be able to get back into my vehicle when I am ready to use it. Why disable the fob when the engine is running? Now...your idea for wiring the push button is a decent idea, but I would not have an easy feeling with knowing that the door is basically unsecured while the engine is remote started. Yes, they have to know to press the button, so that gets rid of 1/2 the idiots trying to get into my car, but the other 1/2 of the idiots scare me.

Random thoughts but use the status output via a relay circuit to give you a 1 second pulse that disables the lock motor wire, though a thought that occurs to me is why? I'm doing one on a 3 series cab on Saturday where the owner wants comfort close AND vent. I asked him if he could bring the windows DOWN via the door key, he said no so I told him neither could I. I cant do the venting via 2 x 530t s off the processor but he'll cringe when I quote him on that job!