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t&t tech 
Platinum - Posts: 2,608
Platinum spacespace
Joined: October 05, 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 7:34 PM / IP Logged  
how do these data systems work exactly on these new high end vehicles, love installing but my market is the easiest in the world i believe, cars like bmw, volvo. audi, volkswagon, we never encounter
commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 16, 2008 at 4:08 PM / IP Logged  
 T&T, disclaimer, this is to MY knowledge and I might be wrong. Data simply means sending more than one voltage down a wire to operate something, e.g. 12v+ to switch, detente 1 to side lights, detente 2 to headlights etc. A CAN or multiplex system is one where that wire may be used for more than one function, e.g.  measure a voltage or resistance across that wire from the switch to the ground  on the other side of the bulbs and you have a failure warning light, have you come across Chrysler one wire locking where you grounded to lock and went through about 600r to unlock? That's a multiplex system where the same wire gives 0volts (from 12v+) to lock and about 5v+ (from 12v+) to unlock. With CAN you have processors eg Body control modules sending out the power i.e.12volts or e.g. lock motor wires and the switches sending very low current low voltage signals to the processors. This saves on weight, cable thickness etc etc. Examples would be current GM, On Star, and indicator clicks, ignition, VSS and illumination through a pair of wires, current BMWs with back-up warning through the radio and Peugeot/Citroen sending data to  high level display driven by the radio, in fact if fitting a new head unit to one of these we ignore the radio acc line and find a new one from either the ignition or fusebox. I realise Chris would probably do better but I hope this gives you some grounding if you will excuse the deliberate awful pun.
t&t tech 
Platinum - Posts: 2,608
Platinum spacespace
Joined: October 05, 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posted: February 16, 2009 at 9:27 PM / IP Logged  
care to add anybody, thanks howie
commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: February 17, 2009 at 3:54 PM / IP Logged  
Yes we finally got you and on your home ground. I've just realised adding a Y to final also adds an "L".  Is this what they mean by going  two  'ell?  Sorry, been one of those  whymsical days
robertsc 
Copper - Posts: 337
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 21, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: February 17, 2009 at 8:48 PM / IP Logged  

changing voltage on a wire is multiplex

data is a different beast

it is essentially computer language 010101110000101010

heres a site for some reading

www.canhack.org

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II#OBD-II

http://www.interfacebus.com/Automotive_SAE_J1850_Bus.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller_Area_Network

KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: February 17, 2009 at 9:09 PM / IP Logged  

A data system is simply a way to transmit more then one signal on a wire - there are a ton of different ways to acomplish it.

There is voltage monitoring - It is possible to use one input pin on a microcontroller and have 1024 different possibilities (on a 10 bit system).  On a 5 volt system this gives a resolution of ~0.005 vdc.  As you can see, you can send all kinds of info in to the microcontroller based on this resolution.  The "down side" here is if you try to send more then one signal (like from two switches) at a time you either confuse the processor, or you have to break down the voltage in to known parts and determine what all signals are present.

Then there are switching matricies - commonly found in Nissan/Infiniti vehicles in order for the BCM to communciate to the accessories on the steering wheel (lights, turn signals, fog lights, etc).  The Nissan system uses 5 outputs and 5 inputs (10 total wires) and ends up with 25 total possibilities.  They use 5 possibilities for diagnostics leaving them with the ability to send 20 signals down 10 wires with no possibility of "confusing" what switch is on at any given point.  This is the same theory behind how computer keyboards work, and is a very popular way to control a large amount of IO points with a minimal amount of IO.

Then there are serial communication lines.  These can be done in a variety of different ways, and CAN and LIN networks would be examples.  You basically send data in a series of predetermined ons and offs (or 1s and 0s) between two intelligent devices.  The data encoded in the message is unlimited and can be virtually anything in the car.  Most manufacturers stick to standards that dicate things like how a message is started, how conflicts are resolved (if two modules try to "talk" at the same time), the format for the message, and other perameters that are required to make an error free, reliable system.  CAN networks are cool because you can theoretically cut one of the two wires and the bus will continue to send info - just at a much slower rate.  If you have some free time read up on CAN networks, they are fairly ingenious in their implementation.

Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: February 18, 2009 at 2:02 AM / IP Logged  
I just want to thank robertsc and KP for their inputs. What you both wrote is extremely interesting but completely over my head so I'm going to use the link above. You can never have enough knowledge.
t&t tech 
Platinum - Posts: 2,608
Platinum spacespace
Joined: October 05, 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posted: February 18, 2009 at 5:52 PM / IP Logged  
great info guys, it's apprcieated, howie, wat's up,see even you liked the info, anyone else care to add, it would be welcome.
commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: February 18, 2009 at 8:07 PM / IP Logged  
I need the info so I can stop refusing to touch 04 onwards Audis, BM's and Mercs!!!   I still bet no one can get an R/S on to a magic key Mercedes yet.  I'm unhappy...(there moderators you don't have to change one word) because I spent the afternon doing a cheap and nasty unkown brand R/S in a manual VW,  the "tach" sense is a wire wrapped 5 turns around the HT wire data systems -- posted image., one of the remotes (2 way) failed to work out of the box,  there's no status output so I had to pull the antenna ring from the ign. switch and stuff a key in it rather than a by-pass box,  and I've just got back from installing a tracker in a truck.  Midnight job but he never turned up till 00:45 and I've just got home!  You wonder why I get cynical?   Did you see how I got the why in there?
t&t tech 
Platinum - Posts: 2,608
Platinum spacespace
Joined: October 05, 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posted: February 19, 2009 at 3:53 PM / IP Logged  

howie when are you gonna let me install an alarm with ya, data systems -- posted image., i see now why you're cynical sometimes, don't worry they'll invent something for the magic key soon, or maybe you can, lol, i really have to see a mercedes with this magic key, i've never seen it, but then again how often do you see a merc. on the road in my parts, lol

commit your way to jehovah and he will act in your behalf. psalms 37:5
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