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Completing a 3-Way Component Set


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boulderguy 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 2:03 PM / IP Logged  
And now that I really think about it, what is it that you want to change & why?  That is, what's the real objective here - mids, midbass, soundstage or just having a 3-way system?  (slept very late today, still trying to get my head around things...)
dwarren 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 2:04 PM / IP Logged  
Go with an 8" mid-woofer. I am planning on a simialr setup, as I already have a 6.5 comp. set, Boulderguy is right with his point being that you won't gain much with such a similar sized driver here, at least that is what I am getting.
lakers08 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 2:50 PM / IP Logged  
I currently have the component set installed in the doors, with the tweeter mounted below the speaker. It's a 2001 Civic, so the mount location is low on the doors. If I were to add kick panels, they'd end up pretty close to where the door speakers are now.
My objective is to achieve more midbass response. I listen to primarily rock music (ie: Foo Fighters) and would like more "upfront" bass. I had originally planned on adding a set of 4" CDT ES400 speakers but I subsequently don't think that it'll solve my dilema. I thought using something like the Adire Extremis or a CDT 6.5" set would alleviate the problem.
I'm open to suggestions and appreciate the counsel of those with more experience and knowledge. If it's more trouble than it's worth, I won't bother and will leave it as is.
P.S.-The sub is a Brahma 15"    
DYohn 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 2:57 PM / IP Logged  

Adding a driver dedicated to the mid and upper bass frequencies relives the component set mid driver from having to do double duty as mid-bass and mid-range.  That is the entire purpose of a 3-way system.  And in car audio where you can easily dedicate an amplifier to just the mid-bass driver, you can achieve stunning improvements in low-end punch and definition.  Adding a dedicated woofer that is capable of significant output in the 80hz to 320 hz octaves can make a dramatic improvement to your system.  ANY good quality woofer will do this; I recomend something between 6" and 8".  It does not matter what size the woofer in the component set might be as it will now handle the next frequency bands.  In my car for example I use 6.5" Seas mid-woofers in the doors and 7" Scan Speak woofers in kicks for stereo midbass.  The idea is to match the sound quality of the two woofer sets so you don't "hear" the transition from one to the other, and careful crossover settings.  You gain from the added ability of a dedicated woofer and amplifier, not from different speaker sizes.

I plan to replace my Scan Speak 18W's with Extremis speakers as soon as I can fabricate new kicks and afford the drivers.  The Extremis requires a pretty large mounting depth (gotta get all that xmax from somewhere!)  By the way I know of at least one person who is using a single Extremis ported at 30Hz as a subwoofer - they are that good.

As far as the question about what to do with the passive crossivers in the component set, you need to use them as designed.  All adding a mid-bass driver will do is relieve the woofer in the comp set from having to play those frequencies.  It does not affect the remainder of the audio spectrum and your passive crossover is required to protect the tweeter.

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boulderguy 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 3:22 PM / IP Logged  

DYohn wrote:
Adding a driver dedicated to the mid and upper bass frequencies relives the component set mid driver from having to do double duty as mid-bass and mid-range.  That is the entire purpose of a 3-way system.  And in car audio where you can easily dedicate an amplifier to just the mid-bass driver, you can achieve stunning improvements in low-end punch and definition.  Adding a dedicated woofer that is capable of significant output in the 80hz to 320 hz octaves can make a dramatic improvement to your system.  ANY good quality woofer will do this; I recomend something between 6" and 8".  It does not matter what size the woofer in the component set might be as it will now handle the next frequency bands. 

Your theory is sound, pardon the pun, but the problem I'm having is that I just don't see having his existing midbass also doing vocals as taking much away from the midbass performance.  It just doesn't take much juice to do the mids.  And then creating the potential for x-over problems I think makes it more hassle than it's worth.

If it were me, I'd either seal the doors with dynamat since they're likely a sieve right now or build that kickpod for a dedicated sealed enclosure.  Either would do wonders for midbass.  Otherwise I'd use an 7-8" midbass up front to move more air than the 6", likely in a pod as well for a huge, traumatic midbass increase.

question - is it possible that your existing 6" door mount is being cancelled out by the speaker's backwave coming thru door holes?  Have you played with sealing that door up well?  Do you have odd-fitting speaker spacers?

lakers08 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 3:42 PM / IP Logged  
The doors have been dampened on both the inner and outer skin with B-Quiet/Edead. There were originally factory speaker rings with spacers but they were removed when the install was done. I believe the components are now mounted on MDF within the door.
I'd like to think the head unit features will help in addressing the problems with the crossover. I'm leaning (again) towards the Adire Extremis, which I believe is a 6.8" woofer and by all accounts will provide the output that I'm looking for. I'm talking with a CDT rep right now as well, who's trying to sell me on either the 4" midrange (ES400) or one of the 6.5" sets.    
DYohn 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 5:18 PM / IP Logged  
My unbiased opinion is that the Adire Extremis will outperform anything from CDT.  Period.
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haemphyst 
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Posted: August 08, 2005 at 7:46 PM / IP Logged  
DYohn wrote:
My unbiased opinion is that the Adire Extremis will outperform anything from CDT.  Period.
And that's the truth... The Extremis is an ***-KICKIN' piece of gear. They sound AWESOME... Fast, smooth, and louder than their efficiency numbers would suggest they are...
Can't go wrong, except in the price. 2 notes a pair is steep, but worth it IMO...
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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