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strange thing with nissan titan windows


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soundnsecurity 
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Posted: March 03, 2009 at 6:18 PM / IP Logged  
ok, so i installed a viper 5900 into my friends Nissan Titan today. everything went fine, so i was playing around with the power window roll up feature that lets you roll the windows up and down by turning and holding the key in the door lock cylinder. so i figured out that i could just hold ground on the lock wire to make the windows roll up. so i hooked it up to the aux channel with a relay and it works fine when the windows are not down all the way but when you try to do it with the windows all of the way down nothing will happen, they budge a little bit and then go back down like something is stopping them. it is really weird to me because it works fine when i use the key, but when i simulate using the key i get nothing if the window is all the way down. does anyone know whats up? do i need a resistor inline or something
KPierson 
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Posted: March 03, 2009 at 6:53 PM / IP Logged  

I've never heard of them acting that way - you shouldn't need a resistor.  Those windows have no way to know where their position is (they should only have an "up" limit switch). 

What happens if you lower the windows all the way down and then short the wire directly to ground (bypass the relay)?  I've never tried to control the windows with a relay, just a straight ground.  It's possible (although not likely) that the contacts in the relay are bouncing enough to trip the anti pinch circuitry.

Kevin Pierson
soundnsecurity 
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Posted: March 03, 2009 at 8:11 PM / IP Logged  
well, i used the relay because im controlling it with the low current AUX, although it did work the same when i just had the AUX hooked straight to the lock circuit and im not sure if it would have worked when the windows are all the way down because i didn't notice the problem until i had it all wired up. i figured it might need a stronger ground so i put a relay in there but the same thing happened.
i found out that i could do this in the first place by shorting the lock wire to ground and i figure there should be no difference.
i guess it couldn't hurt to try a different relay, maybe its just a bad contact. none of this makes sense at all.
KPierson 
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Posted: March 03, 2009 at 8:41 PM / IP Logged  
You won't need the relay, it takes a very small amount of current to trigger the windows - no more then 120mA max from my experiance.  I would guess it would be closer to 25mA or so, but I've never actually measured it.  It is just an input to a controller in the drivers door switch.
Kevin Pierson
soundnsecurity 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 9:55 AM / IP Logged  
i guess what i really need to figure out is, what does the doorlock cylinder do that my relay doesn't do to make the window roll up when it is all the way down. maybe a double pulse and then hold on the second pulse. i made sure to install this in an easy spot to get to so i guess i'll just play with it some more and see what i can figure out.
KPierson 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 11:16 AM / IP Logged  

The door cylinder has three wires on it - a ground, a lock, and an unlock.  When you turn the key in one direction it connects either the lock or unlock directly to ground.  That ground signal is sent to the processor in the door (the power window controller).  The processor in the drivers door communicates through the BCM to a processor in the passenger door (this is all on a serial link). 

There are no double pulses or anything, those are only on Honda/Acuras!

Kevin Pierson
soundnsecurity 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 3:32 PM / IP Logged  
KPierson wrote:

The door cylinder has three wires on it - a ground, a lock, and an unlock.  When you turn the key in one direction it connects either the lock or unlock directly to ground.  That ground signal is sent to the processor in the door (the power window controller).  The processor in the drivers door communicates through the BCM to a processor in the passenger door (this is all on a serial link). 

There are no double pulses or anything, those are only on Honda/Acuras!

yeah, thats exactly how i would expect it to work but there must be something else because all evidence points to something different happening only when the windows are all the way down. maybe something in the lock cylinder is interfering electrically. maybe i will try to do something like a 5-wire to interrupt the connection to the lock cylinder itself.
KPierson 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 3:43 PM / IP Logged  

No, there is nothing else to it.  What year is the Titan?  I can post pictures (or a link) to the service manual that shows the entire circuit.  The only limit switch the system uses is fully closed.  There must be something on your control side that is making it not work.

Try going with just the (-) output and eliminate the relay.  Also, try to just short it directly to ground and see what happens.  I really think you will find that somehow the relay is messing things up.

Kevin Pierson
soundnsecurity 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 3:51 PM / IP Logged  
its a 2004 nissan titan, extended cab, not 4 door. and i ADDED the relay because it had the same problem when i was just using the negative output
KPierson 
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Posted: March 04, 2009 at 4:09 PM / IP Logged  

I thought you said you didn't notice the problem when just using the (-) output, I must have misread what you were saying.

Check out page 30 of the following PDF: http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/titan/2004/gw.pdf

That is the window system.  Page 32 actually has the key cylinder on it showing you that it is just a ground connection

Page 33 shows the actual antipinch junk.  There is one limit switch that is closed when the window is fully closed and is open in any other position.  The anti pinch system on these Nissans works by the window motor turning an encoder.  The encoder then sends pulses back to a processor.  The processor can measure the frequency (tach) of the encoder and then calculate how fast the window is moving.  If the window is not moving fast enough the processor will stop the window and reverse its operation like the Titan is doing.  For some reason it thinks it is hitting something, which is why I said maybe the relay was bouncing a bit causing it to rapidly start and stop the window motor.  You may also want to try greasing the window tracks inside the door - that may help.

Kevin Pierson
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