fortin, flashlogic,dei, xpresskit, idata

Hello all, Have 20+yrs experience in Auto field, need some advice on which CAN BUS interface module to go with. Currently not working professionally as a "installer". Install will be on a (rare) 2007 Hyundai Entourage LIMITED (AKA 2nd generation Kia Sedona, Sedona mfg thru 2006>2012) From my research and I could be wrong the FORTIN brand may be the best bet as: They do not to Restrict access to firmware (once you obtain their $34.99 & $28 to ship to USA! FLASH-LINK UPDATER USB interface box ) They honor the warranty, provide support on FORTIN branded products regardless were purchased. Documentation is NOT restricted.   (You don't have to log-in to access) (They DO NOT Play the " Hey it's our stuff you bought, but we're going to not provide any support, not even let you access wiring diagram info and we're going to void the warranty on the hardware purchased not from us /not installed by a dealer game, etc"... like some of the companies I've been looking at for other parts of the install do.) Another way to say the above: Which module would you buy if YOU didn't have "dealer access"? What's the pro's /cons? Most likely I will be going with the FORTIN ALL-CAN Here's a list I'm working on- ANY I MISSED? FORTIN =

FLASHLOGIC (AUDIOVOX)

DEI

XPRESSKIT

IDATALINK FORTIN EVO-CAN     https://ifar.ca/products/evo/evo-can/ FORTIN ALL-CAN     https://ifar.ca/en/products/evo/evo-all/ https://ifar.ca/en/products/evo/evo-all/vehicles.html#19,3095,4188 XPRESSKIT DLPK - CANBUS MULTI Doorlock Interface module http://www.xpresskit.com/product.aspx?productid=122 http://www.xpresskit.com/VehicleCompatibility.aspx?src=vs1&p=null&year=2007&make=Hyundai&model=Entourage&ps=1&s=0&c=0 IDATALINK ADS-AL CA DL-HK http://www.idatalink.com/search/search?vehicle_make_id=17&vehicle_year_id=2007&vehicle_model_id=613&vehicle_id=4697 IDATALINK Weblink access is exclusively granted to mobile electronics professionals. All Weblink registrations are subject to validation. Your account may be suspended at any time if inaccurate information is provided.

Think you did your research and pretty much answered your question. 

Only two questions that could influence the answer- Does your Entourage have a transponder key system?Does your Entourage have a factory alarm?

If you have a transponder chipped key, then your best / only solution is the Fortin EVO-ALL ( and EVO-CAN ).  It will do it all.  The EVO-ALL doesn't cost

much more than the EVO-CAN and supplies a few more signals ( Tach and Brake ) that will save time during the install.

As you mentioned,  the Fortin module can be flashed by anyone that has the Fortin Flashlink USB cable ( about $50 online ).  However, if you ensure

you purchase the latest Hardware and Firmware version from your source, it won't be necessary.  All Fortin modules leave the factory with the then current firmware loaded.  Currently it is Hardware V5 and Firmware V4.07 ( Hardware V4 will work, also ).

The iDatalink ADS AL-CA module with ADS AL(DL) HK firmware only does the door locks /etc, not the transponder.  There are online sellers that will flash

the module for you prior to shipment ( sometimes for a modest fee ).  You could use the ADS DLSL CA2 module for the door locks.  As a Solo Series module, it does come pre-loaded with firmware.  No direct Tech Support with iDatalink for DIYers but there is a Forum where you could ask a question.  If you need a transponder bypass, that would be a "authorized iDatalink installer only" situation using KLON software and an additional ADS TB module.

The DEI DLPK module is a re-badged Fortin module ( CAN-SL2 ) with DEI D2D comm.  It does not handle the transponder bypass function, but is a

solid module and can be found at a reasonable price.  No direct Tech Support from DEI for DIYers, either.

There are really only three players in the bypass module field.  DEI XPresskit, iDatalink and Fortin.  In your situation, Fortin is not only the obvious

solution, the EVO-ALL is an outstanding, cost effective, quality product. ( IMHO )

Soldering is fun!

kreg357 wrote: Think you did your research and pretty much answered your question.  Only two questions that could influence the answer- Does your Entourage have a transponder key system? Does your Entourage have a factory alarm? If you have a transponder chipped key, then your best / only solution is the Fortin EVO-ALL ( and EVO-CAN ).  It will do it all.  The EVO-ALL doesn't cost much more than the EVO-CAN and supplies a few more signals ( Tach and Brake ) that will save time during the install. As you mentioned,  the Fortin module can be flashed by anyone that has the Fortin Flashlink USB cable ( about $50 online ).  However, if you ensure you purchase the latest Hardware and Firmware version from your source, it won't be necessary.  All Fortin modules leave the factory with the then current firmware loaded.  Currently it is Hardware V5 and Firmware V4.07 ( Hardware V4 will work, also ). The iDatalink ADS AL-CA module with ADS AL(DL) HK firmware only does the door locks /etc, not the transponder.  There are online sellers that will flash the module for you prior to shipment ( sometimes for a modest fee ).  You could use the ADS DLSL CA2 module for the door locks.  As a Solo Series module, it does come pre-loaded with firmware.  No direct Tech Support with iDatalink for DIYers but there is a Forum where you could ask a question.  If you need a transponder bypass, that would be a "authorized iDatalink installer only" situation using KLON software and an additional ADS TB module. The DEI DLPK module is a re-badged Fortin module ( CAN-SL2 ) with DEI D2D comm.  It does not handle the transponder bypass function, but is a solid module and can be found at a reasonable price.  No direct Tech Support from DEI for DIYers, either. There are really only three players in the bypass module field.  DEI XPresskit, iDatalink and Fortin.  In your situation, Fortin is not only the obvious solution, the EVO-ALL is an outstanding, cost effective, quality product. ( IMHO )

Appreciate you taking the time out of your day to respond. Without going into alot of detail as I think that would best go in a thread dedicated to the install itself car has: Regular key, no transponder. Factory anti-theft interrupts power to starter relay. Purpose of this thread Purpose of creating this thread was primarily to make a thread which would note the similarities and differences, the Pro's/Con's of competing CAN-BUS modules and info on how the attitude/support of the companies vary. Really appreciate you clarifying some info and verifying FORTIN products are first rate. Sounds unless there's a valid reason not to go with them- they will be getting my money and referrals to them as well. BTW What do you think about the Audiovox Flashlogic FLSCAN modules? Is Audiovox like FORTIN, or more like a DEI umbrella company? On DEI alarm/remote starter systems from what I can tell won't even allow to access a wiring diagram..without a installers account. Sort of off-topic- and I guess it should go in the thread that has questions specific to the Entourage... Q: Audiovox Prestige SS9000, or Prestige APS997C any good?

Looking for a RELIABLE /DURABLE 2-way , price range $160 (Hopefully) or so will at least 7 ? channels or more. (I have some stock of Bulldog-Security Bulldog Deluxe 500's which I've done installs with in the past but alas they have no "Alarm" features.) **************** My experience with FORTIN support: Tool free 800 number. Website=friendly Documents= readily available. Tech support appeared knowledgeable and friendly. Attitude is one of= I realize my companies profit and my job depends on making you happy- instead of, We could care less. Called FORTIN tech support twice. (Pre-sales questions) Call was primarily to ask if they support, honor warranty issues. 1st call was answered in a timely manner, and the tech was FRIENDLY. He said they SUPPORT (Tech&Warranty) FORTIN branded products no matter where you buy them. 2nd call was to ask about the protocol used on the(D2D)-4-wire datalink cable to connect to alarm/remote start control box used. As you noted DEI D2D comm is used so DEI products would be a better option in that respect. (While talking with tech#1 he mentioned W2W connection is more stable/reliable) While W2W is really not a big deal if wired on the bench, was thinking of pairing the FORTIN EVO-ALL to a (Gasp) Audiovox Prestige SS9000, or Prestige APS997C via the data port to reduce wiring clutter... PS: Is there a EDIT feature on this forum?

Ah, the edit button... Note: Junior Members can not edit or delete their posts. Standard members may edit their posts if it is the last in the thread, and upload images. Silver and Gold members may upload file attachments to posts as well as delete their posts. Platinum members may create polls

wearenotalone wrote: While W2W is really not a big deal if wired on the bench, was thinking of pairing the FORTIN EVO-ALL to a (Gasp) Audiovox Prestige SS9000, or Prestige APS997C via the data port to reduce wiring clutter... PS: Is there a EDIT feature on this forum? .

Where's the edit button? (Guess there is none?) Add to the above, W2W is not a big deal if done on the bench but it would have been nice to use a D2D connection if possible to reduce wiring clutter. Looks like FORTIN uses the DEI protocol so that's not going to be possible if using a Audiovox alarm/remote start. Is this pretty much correct? Via: W2W (analog) connection= It's mix and match (Alarm/remote to CAN-BUS module) Via: D2D (Digital) Protocols vary from mfg to mfg, differing protocols clash so in D2D the below applies: FORTIN = DEI branded products. FLASHLOGIC (AUDIOVOX) = Audiovox branded products XPRESSKIT = DEI branded products IDATALINK = ?

Think the EDIT button does not show up until you have reached a certain rating level.  Check in the Forum rules for exact info.

I believe all major remote start manufactures have a wiring guide database.  DEI's full blown deluxe one is restricted to authorized dealers.  They do have

a stripped down version ( without pictures, etc ) at their Ready Remote site.  Audiovox has a wiring guide site that is available to all with just a simple,free of charge, no requirements, registration.  Bulldog Security has a site that is totally free.  The fourth free wiring info site is here at the 12Volt.

The Audiovox FLCAN is actually a re-badged iDatalink ADS AL-CA.  Some rules apply for support and firmware.

iDatalink supports two communication protocols with the D2D port.  They have their own proprietary one and DBI ( which is DEI's D2D ).  FLCAN's primary

is DBI while iDatalink ADS modules primary is Idatalink. 

The same holds true for Fortin.  Fortin has their own proprietary protocol ( Data-Link ) and also supports DBI.    You can select which D2D you want during

a firmware flash.  Most major remote start units support a D2D protocol.  Some do two ( ex: newer Ultra Start units do Idatalink and Fortin Data-Link protocols ).   Fortin actually has a section on their WEB site dedicated to which remote start manufactures units support their Data-Link protocol.  The list includes model numbers and Rev levels ( when necessary ).

Usually, the remote starters installation guide will identify which D2D protocol is supported.  It can sometimes be found at the manufactures WEB site, along

with the models' features, etc.

While D2D is getting better, it often times is not perfect.  The W2W method always works and makes things easier to troubleshoot if a problem is

encountered during post-install testing. 

You will also find that the remote start manufactures have the same "authorized user" Tech Support policy.   

Things change very quickly in this industry ( like all computer electronic industries ).  You will find previous posts with outdated info and dead links.  For

the DIYer trying to do just one vehicle, gathering the amount of info necessary to be fully informed and completely aware is next to impossible.  Mostprofessional installers are very knowledgeable on their supported brands, get regular training and updates from the suppliers /  manufactures and canassist the customer in getting the correct system with the best features for their model vehicle.  This is a value add for the customer that is very hardto put a price on.  Sorry, this is not a sales pitch but an explanation of why "inside" info is sometimes very difficult to come by.

Soldering is fun!

kreg357 wrote: The iDatalink ADS AL-CA module with ADS AL(DL) HK firmware only does the door locks /etc, not the transponder.

I hope I'm not hijacking this topic, but I've had a question about the above for awhile. What's an example of when someone would need a module for door locks? I thought door locks pretty much operated potentially 5 different ways, and alarms were wired to accommodate any of those 5. It's always puzzled me what these door-lock only modules are for. Thanks.

Some vehicles' door locks are the 5 wire / relay types that must be done in each of the front doors ( ex. = some Jeeps,  Avalanches, etc ).  A real pain.Some vehicles alarm systems can only be controlled by the factory remotes ( some Honda's come to mind ).In these cases, a module with a few simple under dash connections makes life easy.Soldering is fun!

az2008 wrote: kreg357 wrote: The iDatalink ADS AL-CA module with ADS AL(DL) HK firmware only does the door locks /etc, not the transponder. I hope I'm not hijacking this topic, but I've had a question about the above for awhile. What's an example of when someone would need a module for door locks? I thought door locks pretty much operated potentially 5 different ways, and alarms were wired to accommodate any of those 5. It's always puzzled me what these door-lock only modules are for. Thanks.

RE: I hope I'm not hijacking this topic, but I've had a question about the above for awhile. The reason I created this thread was to get some discussion on the various modules on the market, the differences between them, their capabilities, usage of such so feel free to ask questions.

az2008 wrote: What's an example of when someone would need a module for door locks? I thought door locks pretty much operated potentially 5 different ways, and alarms were wired to accommodate any of those 5. It's always puzzled me what these door-lock only modules are for.

I'll tell you why I'm looking at a CAN-BUS interface module type setup such as the FORTIN EVO-ALL vs manually wiring everything up. Short story? CAN-BUS allows devices on the bus to communicate with each other. Accessing the bus allows you to control devices on the network via EXISTING wiring. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus CAN bus (for controller area network) is a vehicle bus standard designed to allow microcontrollers and devices to communicate with each other within a vehicle CAN-BUS...module "Pro's" CAN-BUS wiring is easily accessed. CAN-BUS Module ties DIRECTLY into the CAN-BUS. CAN-BUS module reduces install, and servicing costs.. (See list below) CAN-BUS...module "Con's" Failure of module "could" damage components on the CAN-BUS? 1: (2) wires to CAN-BUS, vs 20 +/- to various parts of the car. 2: Existing alarm system "sees" data pulses on the bus as not being "foreign". 3: Reduces time on initial install. 4: Reduces post-install servicing costs. (NO ONE LIKES TO MUCK around with non-oem wiring. In 20+ years on working on cars I've yet to see a installer make a detailed write-up of all the things he did on the car /make a wiring diagram and leave a copy in the car.) 5: Makes it easier to "change"/update alarm/remote control box. (A good percentage of wiring is CAN-BUS module to alarm brain) 6: Good percentage of connections can be done on the BENCH instead of under the dash.) 7: Less stuff to re-work if I need to pull/replace. 8: Don't have to go into drivers door- to access driver door switch. 9: Don't have to access RAM module, rear of car. 10:Don't have the expense, cost of wire, cost in TIME to run wiring to rear of car. 11: CAN-BUS module will control Left and Right power sliding doors, plus will control power rear hatch. 12: FORTIN EVO-ALL , gets tach and e-brake signal off CAN-BUS. 13: Reduces failure points, more crap you tie into more chance for a problem later on. 14: Reduces the amount of "rats-nest" wiring added to car. 15: Don't have to run wiring from driver door switch- thru the wiring loom thru the frame to the alarm brain.