Vanworks Car Audio Laconia, N.H.

I had a Viper 160XV remote starter installed in a 98 Legacy Wagon at this place and I thought the salesman on the phone wasn't very talkative and didn't offer much information. I was leary, but I still had them do the job since other family had work done there and the have been around for a long time. At the end of the job when I was paying for it he pointed out this is how to start, stop, lock and unlock, and the aux button wasn't connected to anything. I asked about hooking the aux function to something and he said I need to use a relay, which I agree. After the installation I was a good little boy and read the owners manual and found that the starter anti-grind, LED, and the momentary switch had not been installed. I called Vanworks and talked with the same person I spoke with before. He says that the anti-grind is an additional $25 to install, they do not drill into cars to install the LED's, and the button is for programming only and he didn't wan't anyone messing with his programming. I was then asking him why he didn't explain this to me since it is documented in the owners manual. His reply was "I do (I don't remember how many) installations every day and if i explained this to all of my customers I wouldn't get anything done." Not his exact quote, but I paint the right picture. I tried to explain to him that this is customer service, but I don't think he got it. The factory alarm (Code Alarm as far as I can tell) is still installed and I also asked about how it will work with it and the remote lock. This man said he saw a disarm position open, but there was nothing in it. I didn't question it at the time, but how hard would it have been to enable that with the remote starter? Also, I learned from the Subaru dealership (where I stopped for wiring diagrams) that installing remote starters is not recommended by Subaru since some installers hack the installation by just powering the coil. Now I am really concerned. I should have installed the damn thing myself. Before I really bitch about this place, is not installing the extra goodies like the factory disarm, anti-grind, LED and the button common in your industry, or is this guy lazy/greedy? Thanks Jason

I failed to mention that when I called him he agree to give me the led, button and the wiring to go with it which he did later that day. Jason

if the starter kill was not wired in then he's right... you dont need the LED or programming switch at all.... i take them out and throw them in a box here as well..... we charge extra for all the "extras" like factory disarm/rearm, keyless, etc, etc.... but we discuss with the customer what he "needs" and ask what he wants before the install, not after..... Kevin Gerry

Certified Electronics Technician

MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer

Classic Car Audio

since 1979

That's a 10 - 4...........Discuss with the Customer first......I toss Items that is really not needed for customer ( except to confuse them ).You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.As for Programming.............I program what is needed, if it is added, and if the Customer chooses to change the Programming & mess it up, I let it happen 1 time, then I charge the Customer for being ( shall we say ) ignorant???MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes

You Might Be the One That Knows.

Included in the basic installed price at most shops is remote start. Any factory anti theft bypasses, keyless entry, rear defrost, trunk release, window control, starter kill, etc. features that the unit is capable of is an extra. Most customers will read what it can do, but fail to notice that "these are optional features that can be done at installation". It is also up to the salesperson to be on top of their product knowledge, and sell these extra features properly. Gus Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

mo12v wrote: You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.

So, if it doesn't start and run fine you install the anti-grind? His communication and sales skills are definitely lacking, but it sounds like the work that was done was consistent with the industry. I will report back when I find out if he wired the ignition correctly. Sooo, the LED in effect displays the status of the starter cut out, does the button do anything other than programming such as valet? If the system was locked with the remote and someone tries to start the vehicle without unlocking it, does the 160 not allow the vehicle to start? Also, where can I find programming info on this unit? Jason

mo12v wrote: You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.

dont know that i follow that logic... the anti-grind is a feature that allows the customer to not accidently grind the starter on a vehicle that is already running under RS... it doesnt have anything to do with whether it starts and runs fine.....

wetchicken,  as a personal observation... if you thought your sales guys people skills were lacking before, just wait till you have to call him and tell him that you reprogrammed the unit and now you cant get it working properly and can he redo it for you.....

Kevin Gerry

Certified Electronics Technician

MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer

Classic Car Audio

since 1979

kgerry wrote: ..just wait till you have to call him and tell him that you reprogrammed the unit and now you cant get it working properly and can he redo it for you.....

Heh, I have already thought of that. <Ring> Hello? Hi, I got the LED and switch from you after you installed my RS, and I screwed up the programming. <click> I Would exhaust all other options before I called him for that. Even then I would check other places first. I figure if I can program in BASIC, html, php, etc and can pass the highest class ham radio license. I hope I can tell if I am getting in over my head with this programming before I do it.

[QUOTE=mo12v]

You don't need Anti-Grind if the unit Starts & Runs fine.[QUOTE]

That does sound STUPID............

I need another job..............

MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes

You Might Be the One That Knows.

wetchicken, another professional installer (north of boston) chiming in here. --Most of the cost of the remote starter is in the labor. Many remote starters offer such extra features as starter kill, anti-grind, keyless entry, trunk release, panic, turing on the domelight when you unlock, and so forth. It is reasonable that you would not get those features as part of a basic, entry-priced install, even though the remote starter itself may be capable of doing those things. However, if the dealer is smart enough, he's going to offer you those features, at an extra cost. I upsell customers all the time----I get more money of course, and they are happier with their car. While it is hard, especially when a store is busy, so take the time to explain each and every feature to each and every customer------a retailer is throwing money away if they don't at least offer you something that would make your car work better. --The LED is for the installer to use during programming, and also serves to warn people that your starter kill is activated (or possibly fool them into thinking you have an alarm). --The momentary switch is for programming features, adding replacement remotes, and also for you to defeat the starter kill if the remote should be lost or broken. --Typically, if there is no starter kill installed, the LED and switch would not get mounted------they confuse the average customer, and many people don't want holes drilled in their new car. However, I do zip-tie the programming switch in an inconspicuous, but easy-to-access location like the fusebox. Makes it far easier for the times when I have to re-program something for a customer, or replace his remote------obviously I don't want to have to take the car apart twice. --About the Subaru dealer's comment: Many car dealers know a lot less about automotive electronics than they care to admit, they often get confused when cars some in with complex electrical issues, and many times they react by just arbitarily blaming any aftermarket accessory they can find. On the other hand, there definitely are poor installations that do cause problems. But if the system is installed properly by a skilled installer, there is no reason to have any trouble. --Anti-grind: Again, this is one of the optional features. But if you are forgetful and are prone to moving the key to the start position even after the engine is running, it is a nice thing. BOTTOM LINE: I don't think the shop actually did anything wrong. But if they took a moment to ask you questions and listen to your answers......... you probably would have opted for some of those extra features...........the shop would have made more money and you would have been satisfied. WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE: While I don't connect all those features on every install for free, I don't like unhappy customers. As long as you weren't yelling at me or calling me names or anything, I probably would have just connected the features you want, not charged you, apologized for the miscommunication, and sent you on your way, hoping you (or your friends) would be back. Again, I wouldn't feel obligated to do those things for free.........but I think it would be the smart thing for me to do............. at the retailer I work for, we believe in taking care of people and giving them good customer service. In the long run, I'd rather hand out $50 in free features than have someone leave upset......... but many retailers (in all different kinds of businesses) probably do not see it that way.