the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

capacitor


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
allmet33 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 02, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:31 AM / IP Logged  

Okay...with the first part, you missed the point.  I haven't had enough interaction with the posters to know their style and how to take them, feel me?

Thank you VERY much for that information.  I completely understand what your'e saying and I appreciate the straight-forwardness of your posting.  The way it was explained to me before was....the capacitor stores electricity for the amp when needed, so it's not a constant draw on the battery, therefore...allowing less of a draw on the battery which means it's easier for the alternator to keep the battery charged.  So basically, if I had a strong enough amp and I hooked it directly to the battery with no cap, and I pumped it loud and long enough...I could essentially drain the battery before the alternator had a chance to recharge the battery. 

Does that make any sense to you?

'06 Hyundai Azera - Pioneer FH-P4200MP / Factory center channel & tweeters / Infinity Kappa 62.7i's; all 4 doors, 2 Phoenix Gold Xenon 10D2 10" subs pushed w/Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp
audiocableguy 
Copper - Posts: 630
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 27, 2003
Location: Idaho, United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:40 AM / IP Logged  
You're saying my alternator is too small, but why would they install one that supposedly handles the power needs of the car, but then also have 4...yes, count them...4 12 volt plugs that can be used at any given time for whatever purpose.
Those x4 12 volt Acc outlets are designed for charging cell phones, radar detectors, Ipods, etc. Most are fused at 15 amps and will sometimes share circuits with other devises and or be linked between those same Acc outlets.
Cars are being designed for the highest MPG. This is done by reducing weight and eliminating anything not needed. According to the maker, the vehicle has everything you need to drive off the lot. Your desire to add high amperage gear doesn't fit into the plan, the one shared with the million units off the same assembly line. Many trucks must be order with trailering or HD packages to get a higher amperage alternator, larger radiator, trans cooler etc.
"Okay...so capacitors don't work... If it's intended purpose is to store electricity for the amp(s) to draw on when the demand is needed (as opposed to drawing directly from the battery) why don't they work???".
Alternator-Battery-Cap-Load. If the load draws more than the Alt can handle, the energy is taken from the battery. The drop is covered by the cap. Very short term. That used energy must now be replaced. The only way is from the Alt. If you have too small an Alt. The sag is too long for the cap do do anything so it become load. The Stiffening Cap can't do anything but store energy. Same voltage in-Same voltage out. The scientific factors are covered in other posts. A second battery can cause the same issues. You must make energy first than decide if and when it needs to be stored. This is a very simplistic attempt to explain.
allmet33 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 02, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:44 AM / IP Logged  

audiocableguy wrote:
You're saying my alternator is too small, but why would they install one that supposedly handles the power needs of the car, but then also have 4...yes, count them...4 12 volt plugs that can be used at any given time for whatever purpose.
Those x4 12 volt Acc outlets are designed for charging cell phones, radar detectors, Ipods, etc. Most are fused at 15 amps and will sometimes share circuits with other devises and or be linked between those same Acc outlets.
Cars are being designed for the highest MPG. This is done by reducing weight and eliminating anything not needed. According to the maker, the vehicle has everything you need to drive off the lot. Your desire to add high amperage gear doesn't fit into the plan, the one shared with the million units off the same assembly line. Many trucks must be order with trailering or HD packages to get a higher amperage alternator, larger radiator, trans cooler etc.
"Okay...so capacitors don't work... If it's intended purpose is to store electricity for the amp(s) to draw on when the demand is needed (as opposed to drawing directly from the battery) why don't they work???".
Alternator-Battery-Cap-Load. If the load draws more than the Alt can handle, the energy is taken from the battery. The drop is covered by the cap. Very short term. That used energy must now be replaced. The only way is from the Alt. If you have too small an Alt. The sag is too long for the cap do do anything so it become load. The Stiffening Cap can't do anything but store energy. Same voltage in-Same voltage out. The scientific factors are covered in other posts. A second battery can cause the same issues. You must make energy first than decide if and when it needs to be stored. This is a very simplistic attempt to explain.

Understood...and thank you.

'06 Hyundai Azera - Pioneer FH-P4200MP / Factory center channel & tweeters / Infinity Kappa 62.7i's; all 4 doors, 2 Phoenix Gold Xenon 10D2 10" subs pushed w/Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp
megaman 
Copper - Posts: 385
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 24, 2008
Location: Montana, United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:47 AM / IP Logged  

DYjohn is right again, as I keep noticing on this board.  I think the common misconception on Caps out in the world is that the cap is 'isolated' from the electrical system as far as power strain is concerned.  As D was explaining, the cap needs to recharge after the amp 'sucks it dry', and thus draws the current from the system to 'fill it back up' 

As far as the newer vehicles coming with 50 different power plugs throughout the car, the idea is that they would most likely be used for cell phone chargers and the like, which draw very little current.  Even the power plugs in the back of vehicles, like some of the Ford SUV's, are intended to be used while the vehicle is parked and not running.  So in this scenario, the alternator doesn't even come into play.  This is where the smaller alternators are being used more and more in passenger vehicles, and smaller SUV's.

I get customers all the time that don't understand how much a 1000watt system taxes the stock electrical system.  They want their cake and eat it too.

DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:50 AM / IP Logged  

allmet33 wrote:
The way it was explained to me before was....the capacitor stores electricity for the amp when needed, so it's not a constant draw on the battery, therefore...allowing less of a draw on the battery which means it's easier for the alternator to keep the battery charged.  So basically, if I had a strong enough amp and I hooked it directly to the battery with no cap, and I pumped it loud and long enough...I could essentially drain the battery before the alternator had a chance to recharge the battery. 

Which would be wrong.  Whoever told you this does not understand how capacitors work... and probably has a number of other misconceptions as well.

Support the12volt.com
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:52 AM / IP Logged  

megaman wrote:
DYohn is right again, as I keep noticing on this board. 

Thanks.  I just realized I've been doing this kind of stuff for a living for 35 years.  This month, in fact...

Support the12volt.com
allmet33 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 02, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:54 AM / IP Logged  
megaman wrote:

I get customers all the time that don't understand how much a 1000watt system taxes the stock electrical system.  They want their cake and eat it too.

This is what I'm starting to understand.  This had never been an issue for me because my previous systems all fell under 500 watts and never gave me any issues as far as lights dimming or anything.  The current amp I have now is pushing at least 600 watts and an installer here in my area suggested installing the cap...so I did.  However, still having the issue with the lights dimming had me turn to this forum where I've received a lot of great advice in the past.

I've been really good a putting together good quality average power systems, but I'm getting started with systems that are a bit stronger and now I'm understanding that one must take into account how that system will affect the vehicle in terms of draw on the electrical system.  I've learned a lot, but I'm not ashamed to say I have a lot to learn as well.

'06 Hyundai Azera - Pioneer FH-P4200MP / Factory center channel & tweeters / Infinity Kappa 62.7i's; all 4 doors, 2 Phoenix Gold Xenon 10D2 10" subs pushed w/Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp
allmet33 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 02, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:55 AM / IP Logged  
DYohn wrote:

allmet33 wrote:
The way it was explained to me before was....the capacitor stores electricity for the amp when needed, so it's not a constant draw on the battery, therefore...allowing less of a draw on the battery which means it's easier for the alternator to keep the battery charged.  So basically, if I had a strong enough amp and I hooked it directly to the battery with no cap, and I pumped it loud and long enough...I could essentially drain the battery before the alternator had a chance to recharge the battery. 

Which would be wrong.  Whoever told you this does not understand how capacitors work... and probably has a number of other misconceptions as well.

Well...it now makes sense as I'm still having the dimming light problem, which caused me to turn here to see if I can get a 2nd opinion...which I did.  Again...thank you very much!

'06 Hyundai Azera - Pioneer FH-P4200MP / Factory center channel & tweeters / Infinity Kappa 62.7i's; all 4 doors, 2 Phoenix Gold Xenon 10D2 10" subs pushed w/Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp
allmet33 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 02, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 11:59 AM / IP Logged  

So...can I assume that I really don't even need the capacitor in my system?  I can take it out and everything should run as it does now?

'06 Hyundai Azera - Pioneer FH-P4200MP / Factory center channel & tweeters / Infinity Kappa 62.7i's; all 4 doors, 2 Phoenix Gold Xenon 10D2 10" subs pushed w/Phoenix Gold Xenon 600.1 amp
DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: July 22, 2008 at 1:48 PM / IP Logged  

allmet33 wrote:
So...can I assume that I really don't even need the capacitor in my system?  I can take it out and everything should run as it does now?

You don't even need a capacitor in your system.  You need to upgrade the big 3 and probably get an HO alternator.

Support the12volt.com
Page of 3

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Thursday, April 25, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer