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factory ke with rs problem


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megaman 
Copper - Posts: 385
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 24, 2008
Location: Montana, United States
Posted: October 23, 2008 at 11:18 PM / IP Logged  

I've run into this a few times and it never real dawned on me what the problem may be.  When a Remote Start is installed on some vehicles with the factory keyless entry integrated on the key, the keyless door locks don't work when it's remote started.  For example, on a 08' accord, which has the keyless fob integrated with the key, after you remote start the vehicle, the keyless doesn't work.  You have to shut the car down, unlock with the factory keyless, and then restart the vehicle.  I just ran into the same problem with a 07' camry tonight.  Keyless fob built into the key, and when remote started, you have no control over the door locks unless you shut the RS down.

Anyone know of a reason or, more importantly, a remedy?  For temporary purposes, I had my customers use the keyless entry on the new RS keyfob, but they all complain that they just want to use the factory controls because they are used to it.

Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 12:54 AM / IP Logged  
On some of the older cars, the factory keyless entry module was a separate part, and you could just interrupt the ignition input to the factory keyless module.
For example, on my mother's 2003 Honda Odyssey, the keyless module is above the glove box, and has just a few wires. It was a simple matter to interrupt (during remote start only) the ignition wire going into that module, and she can now use her factory keyless even while the remote starter is on.
But on many newer cars, there's no regular ignition wire to interrupt. The modules all communicate by data, and there seems to be no way to fool the factory keyless into thinking the ignition is off.
But, unless you're giving away your keyless entry for free, this means more money for you! Even though it sucks that most Japanese cars are designed this way, if you explain it to the customer the right way, you should be able to sell them your aftermarket keyless entry too.
There are some simple, single-button remote starters on the market, that can remote start the car and unlock the doors too. Audiovox Prestige APS-901, Pursuit PRO-9051 or PRO-9056 are some examples. Push twice to start the car, and then push and hold to unlock.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 3:24 AM / IP Logged  
Noticed this problem with BMWs as well, took a keyless entry key, ripped out the battery, placed in a 556 and it still failed to lock, that's when I found out one had to use the valet key. I think Chris has the answer,  Also having a similar problem with a Jag XJ8  where the OEM alarm triggers on remote start. There are no ignition leads to this unit in the trunk, I disconnected it and everything worked but I lost trunk release and brake lights. The first isn't a problem, run a wire back from my alarm's trunk release with a relay feeding the + output to the solenoid but how do I solve the second. My only thought is I noticed lock and unlock wires going to it so what if I disconnect  the lock wire? Any thoughts. Yes I've connected key sense and no difference. Alarm is a Clifford Intelliguard 850 with an Intellistart V (IV manufactured elsewhere to the IV)
megaman 
Copper - Posts: 385
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 24, 2008
Location: Montana, United States
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 10:33 AM / IP Logged  

We deal mostly with the Avital 4100 and 4200 for our inexpensive remote starts.  These units will however, cease to exist shortly.  In my market, the super cheap remote starts are the king.  It's not uncommon for our shop to do 70-80 of these guys per month, november through february. 

I was just curious because we have been doing more and more business with the local dealerships with add-on peices and the number one thing is remote start.  The dealership only wants the remote start, because most of thier vehicles come with factory keyless.  I'd love to charge the extra fees all day long, and it would be easier if we were dealing with the customers directly, but we have to deal with the middle-man, which is the dealership.

ckeeler 
Gold - Posts: 1,461
Gold spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2008
Location: New Mexico, United States
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM / IP Logged  

howie ll wrote:
Also having a similar problem with a Jag XJ8  where the OEM alarm triggers on remote start. There are no ignition leads to this unit in the trunk, I disconnected it and everything worked but I lost trunk release and brake lights. The first isn't a problem, run a wire back from my alarm's trunk release with a relay feeding the + output to the solenoid but how do I solve the second. My only thought is I noticed lock and unlock wires going to it so what if I disconnect  the lock wire? Any thoughts. Yes I've connected key sense and no difference. Alarm is a Clifford Intelliguard 850 with an Intellistart V (IV manufactured elsewhere to the IV)

are you able to interrupt the main power wire going into the factory unit in the trunk with a relay, during remote start?

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 1:40 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks for the thought but I just want it not to arm, according to what I've checked, (directechs etc) the unlock wire in the door will turn off the alarm so the DEI tech boys told me to relay the unlock (got to flip polarity hence the relay) from the Intellistart....but it doesn't just turning off the alarm doesn't disqarm the factory alarm. I thought cutting the lock wire to the factory alarm would disable the alarm part but keep the processor parts going that controlled trunk release, brake and running light control and monitoring etc, or is that too obvious and simple, has anyone your side of the pond done one? There are no UK instructions. Look on directechs then try finding this car in the UK section. If it's any clue the factory alarm bears some similarity to early GEM units as used on Fords.
ckeeler 
Gold - Posts: 1,461
Gold spacespace
Joined: June 20, 2008
Location: New Mexico, United States
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 2:51 PM / IP Logged  

howie ll wrote:
Thanks for the thought but I just want it not to arm, according to what I've checked, (directechs etc) the unlock wire in the door will turn off the alarm so the DEI tech boys told me to relay the unlock (got to flip polarity hence the relay) from the Intellistart....but it doesn't just turning off the alarm doesn't disqarm the factory alarm. I thought cutting the lock wire to the factory alarm would disable the alarm part but keep the processor parts going that controlled trunk release, brake and running light control and monitoring etc, or is that too obvious and simple, has anyone your side of the pond done one? There are no UK instructions. Look on directechs then try finding this car in the UK section. If it's any clue the factory alarm bears some similarity to early GEM units as used on Fords.

i do know a fella who did one. i'll make a phone call. he never did mention anything about it. i wonder if he had the same problem as you. i'll find out.

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: October 24, 2008 at 3:22 PM / IP Logged  
ck hopefully thanking you in advance, it's not a nightmare, just a hassle. I didn't do the original, but it was a nice install and the original installer made all the right conections (I've checked everything!) I've taken it on as a project with no promises to the customer. It's a 98 XJ8 with a 3.2V8  (I think you got the 4.0litre and V12 versions but the body electrics are the same. Even the dealers here have no idea.

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