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where can i get a quiet automotive relay?


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KPierson 
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Posted: July 31, 2009 at 10:48 PM / IP Logged  
Perhaps you can get a weatherproof relay and mount it under the hood?
Kevin Pierson
trevors 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Posted: July 31, 2009 at 10:57 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the inputs and to wrap up so far,  Outside of identifying a reasonably quiet automotive relay, I can always tackle a homebrew solid state replacement that could plug into the 30/85/86/etc socket and hopefully include a stall current limiting mechanism of some sort, but I'd really prefer to go with a quieter relay.

I'm hoping people who specify parts and do installation work professionally will have a sense of which relays are louder and which quieter, and in what applications they'd be inclined to use one versus another.  I tend to doubt all 30/85/86/etc relay manufacturers develop the identical quality product, and if there're relatively premium versions that perform more quietly (say for Escalade quality installations :)) I'm hoping to learn of them.

i am an idiot 
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Posted: July 31, 2009 at 11:03 PM / IP Logged  
Felt will no nothing to deaden the sound.   Have you thought about Dynamat? 
Let's Go Brandon Brown. Congratulations on your first Xfinity Series Win. LGBFJB
trevors 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Posted: July 31, 2009 at 11:10 PM / IP Logged  

KPierson wrote:
Perhaps you can get a weatherproof relay and mount it under the hood?

Yes, relocating the relay to the other side of the firewall would be a solution.  Darned shame to have to do though -- all that additional wire length.  I guess -- if all else fails :(!

trevors 
Copper - Posts: 86
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Posted: July 31, 2009 at 11:21 PM / IP Logged  

i am an idiot wrote:
Felt will no nothing to deaden the sound.   Have you thought about Dynamat? 

Not any old felt but the high density stuff has been traditionally used for sound deadening as well as padding.  It did take the edge of the sound, but it definitely remains too loud.  I have some eDead which did a great job of kiliing speaker sourced vibrations in my xB door panels.  I've debated whether I should give that a whirl, or just accept the hint the felt test gave me.  Of course, I can't apply eDead to the base of the relay -- that's where the pins are (I was able to put one layer of felt down there).

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Posted: August 01, 2009 at 5:32 AM / IP Logged  
How about a modified 508d (remove the pot and use a rotary pot instead for the delay or better still, one of the Vellerman kits, either variable wiper delay specific, or a timer device. again though not sure about the current handling, 15amps seems high, any one tried to measure the current draw whilst holding on to the wiper?
dualsport 
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Posted: August 01, 2009 at 8:00 AM / IP Logged  
It sounds like you have prior experience with working with solid state- so you might reconsider a power transistor.
If your application here is simply switching power on and off, rather than a continuously variable output, it's much easier on the transistor, because it'd be operating in the saturated region, where it actually dissipates relatively low power, even if you're driving it with 20A. The on resistance of power MOSFETs is pretty low, so when it's on, the power is current squared multiplied by the on resistance.
Power transistors are used for continuously variable blower motor control, which draw in the range of 20A; and they do have a hard time when the speed is throttled down to half power, because then the power is divided equally between the motor and the transistor. Lots of heat there to deal with.
With your wiper application, it spends little time in the middle region of the transistors operating area, so it won't heat up anywhere as much as with a variable blower speed control. Should be easy to heat sink it sufficiently to keep it cool.
If you can work out your setup to use a low side drive, it'd be better, because N-channel transistors tend to be better in regard to the on resistance.
KPierson 
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Posted: August 01, 2009 at 8:08 AM / IP Logged  

The "click" of the relay is made by three things - the size of the contacts, the amount of current the coil pulls (and thus the strength of the magnetic coil, and the strength of the return spring.

If you go with a 15A relay your contact size will be smaller, so a higher resistive coil can be used and a lesser return spring.  To my knowledge all 30A bosch style relays are loud - I have never seen a "quiet" one.  I just read a thread somewhere where an installer wrapped a relay in dynamat and it was still too loud.

If you go with a Mosfet get one with an isolated tab (assuming 12v output) and bolt the tab to a ground ground in the car - this will allow you to use the car as the heat sink and should elminate any concerns of heat.  Also, as dualsport alluded to, try to find a mosfet with an extremely low on resistance.  I think this path is definately worth a try as it is fairly cheap and easy and will definately get rid of the noise.

Kevin Pierson
dualsport 
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Posted: August 01, 2009 at 9:11 AM / IP Logged  
$1.25
Inexpensive enough to experiment with-
trevors 
Copper - Posts: 86
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 14, 2008
Posted: August 01, 2009 at 1:41 PM / IP Logged  

howie ll wrote:
How about a modified 508d (remove the pot and use a rotary pot instead for the delay or better still, one of the Vellerman kits, either variable wiper delay specific, or a timer device. again though not sure about the current handling, 15amps seems high, any one tried to measure the current draw whilst holding on to the wiper?

Thanks, but my timer/control circuit module is functioning as desired and mounts perfectly in the available space with its own wiring harness -- I'd prefer not to have to scrap it and start again.  Everything is cleanly mounted wihin the steering column shroud and if it wasn't for that darned noisy relay, it would be perfect.

I'm sure the 15A fuse selection is based on worst case protection of the wiper motor.  It's quite possible normal operation doesn't exceed 3 to 5A.  Stall conditions can cause a considerable increase in current.

I've thought up a pretty simple NPN final output two transistor replacement possibility that includes current limiting, but it does steal a volt or so from the motor under  normal conditions.  Not sure how much impact that loss would have.

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