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is a relay necessary for all connections?


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bgraper 
Member - Posts: 27
Member spacespace
Joined: November 16, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: December 22, 2009 at 10:31 PM / IP Logged  
Just to preface this a little bit: I installed 2 other remote starters and for each of these I ran 1 large gauge wire from the battery to a small fuse panel.
Then every connection I ran through a relay and to the fuse panel. I didn't want to draw much from the +12 V at the ignition harness.
Is this necessary? Or do I really only need to add a relay for a second ignition or second accessory? --> Where does the power come from for this relay? Just from the wiring harness or from a fused connection from the battery?
Any help is appreciated!
smoketest 
Member - Posts: 27
Member spacespace
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posted: December 22, 2009 at 11:26 PM / IP Logged  

bgraper wrote:
Just to preface this a little bit: I installed 2 other remote starters and for each of these I ran 1 large gauge wire from the battery to a small fuse panel.
Then every connection I ran through a relay and to the fuse panel. I didn't want to draw much from the +12 V at the ignition harness.
Is this necessary? Or do I really only need to add a relay for a second ignition or second accessory? --> Where does the power come from for this relay? Just from the wiring harness or from a fused connection from the battery?
Any help is appreciated!

What do you mean by "every connection" ran through your relays. How many relays did you install? Do you mean all the high pwr wires like ignition, starter, acc OR do you mean every connection including the low power things like door switches? Many of the CM already have built in relays to run these required switching actions. The low pwr connections do not need relays.

In general the power required by devices connected to the output side of the manual operated ignition switch is already being delivered to the input side of the ignition switch by existing fuses and wires of suitable size per the mfg orig design. The switch itself does not draw pwr it merly passes the input to the output. The same is true for a relay, the relay contacts are a switch, where in the switching is done by activating the associated relay coil which draws <150mA. So for relays that are meant to mimic the manual ignition switch, I would certainly suggest that you get the power for those from the input side of the ignition harness and return the result to the output side of the ignition switch. Please note that the pwr required to run the relay coil will need to come from a +12vdc or gnd potential depending on the the polarity you are using to activate the coil. Which may or maynot match the signal which you are attempting to switch through the relay contact. 

Now for high pwr loads that are not currently in the ignition switch, such as defrost grids etc, I agree with your desire not to over load the ignition harness. So it is best to get that power either from the orig source that feeds the device under normal operation or from an aux fuse station . I would prefer to see you get it from the existing source wire and down stream from the existing fuse which already supplies that load under normal operation. This way if you pop a fuse, ie blow a defrost fuse, than the location of that fuse is already documented.

Now for NEW high pwr loads that are not part of the orig mfg designs than yes I would get that power from a new fused batt line or locate an existing wire that you are sure has the extra capacity to handle your new load.  

bgraper 
Member - Posts: 27
Member spacespace
Joined: November 16, 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: December 23, 2009 at 12:07 AM / IP Logged  
Well I installed a relay on all of the ignition harness connections.
I wasn't a huge fan of the small gauge on the remote starter, so I didn't want to risk anything. I used the remote stater output (the ignition wire for example), as the positive signal for a relay. The relay drew power from a small fuse panel that I put in.
Things like a 1 wire door lock/unlock I used relays. The trunk I used a relay as well.
Relays to change polarity if need be.
I understand that is an extremely "play it safe" way of doing things, and if a fuse were to go, the vehicle would function properly, the remote starter wouldn't until the fuse was changed.
I guess my big question is this: With this remote starter I just bought, the gauge of the wire looks good. I will just attached these wires to the wires of the T-Harness I bought. For the second ignition wire, I will use the 1st ignition wire as the positive signal to activate a relay, pulling power from........where? From a new wire that I will run, or from the +12V From the ignition harness?
tedmond 
Gold - Posts: 4,610
Gold spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: December 23, 2009 at 7:33 AM / IP Logged  

how thick aree the wires that come off the remote start unit? the unit has onboard relays to control all of that, and the wire gauge they supply is sufficiant for any app. If the wire is 20+ gauge then its too thin. If its aroung 12 - 16 then thats normal.

bgraper, where abouts are you in ontario?

i might just help you out if your within reach.

smoketest 
Member - Posts: 27
Member spacespace
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posted: December 23, 2009 at 8:40 AM / IP Logged  

Hi bgraper...

So your saying the car has/requires two ignition wires and I assume based on your questions that your remote start unit only has one ignition relay. Is that the basic question, ie how to hook up the 2nd ignition wire? In which case I would think that you would want to get the pwr for the cars 2nd ignition wire from the same source that it currently gets it from when the factory switch is involked, ie from the wire on the input side of the switch. You mentioned a T-harness, which I suspect doesn't contain this 2nd iginition wire you are looking for. But I am sure the T-harness must have all of the wires at least in a straight pass through fashion. So just find which of those "feed through wires" in t-harness is assoicated with the cars 2nd ignition wire and splice your wire tails into those wires. Now If your RS unit does not have a spare configurable relay (often called a FLEX relay) than yes you will need to add a relay to handle the 2nd ignition. Trigger that new relay from the ignition1 RS output, preferably using the (-)ignition1 output. I realize you mentioned using a positive trigger from the ignition 1 RS CM, but doesnt your unit have a low power (-) 200mA ignition1 output in addition to the high pwr ignition1 output? If so than I would use the (-) ignition1 output to trigger the new ignition2 relay coil and thus provide better issolation from the ignition1 system. 


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