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flyback/snubber diode in relays


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sequoia2006 
Copper - Posts: 63
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Joined: July 13, 2010
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 5:03 PM / IP Logged  
To all the pro installer,
Do you always use snubber diodes in relays?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freewheeling_diode
icearrow6 
Copper - Posts: 497
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Joined: February 02, 2009
Location: California, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 5:09 PM / IP Logged  
always, always without exception?
No.
It depends on what is "triggering" the relay.
sequoia2006 
Copper - Posts: 63
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Joined: July 13, 2010
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 5:11 PM / IP Logged  
Let's say one end connects to 12V+ and the other connects to a neg output signal from alarm system.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Posted: September 09, 2010 at 7:25 PM / IP Logged  
Probably yes unless you know if what is "triggering" the relay tolerates the relay.
FWIW - I never use snubbed relays - I add external diodes etc to plain relays.
JWorm 
Platinum - Posts: 2,208
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Posted: September 09, 2010 at 7:29 PM / IP Logged  
During the 7 or so years I installed alarms/remote starts for a living I don't think I ever installed a diode across the coil of the relay. There was an occasional unit I purchased that had the diode preinstalled, but that was rare as well.
icearrow6 
Copper - Posts: 497
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Location: California, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 7:55 PM / IP Logged  
Example. . .
Alarm (+) trigger to power locks.
Diode? most likely no. unless 07 or newer car.
Alarm (-) trigger for say a GM reverse polarity power locks. HELL YES.
Its situational. It basically avoids that voltage spike when the relay lets go.
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 8:48 PM / IP Logged  
I, too, never added a diode to a relay when installing alarms. Any respectable alarm will have the diode built in to the (-) output.
Kevin Pierson
i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,667
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 9:00 PM / IP Logged  

Just about all alarms that have a 200Ma output are expecting you to use that wire to power a relay.  Most of them have diodes across that wire to the power path. 

The backlash from a relay is sometimes severe.  A transistor or logic circuit that is only capable of 200Ma wouild not survive for long without a diode across it.   They know that they can not count on everybody installing an alarm to install a diode.  They put the diodes in the alarm brain.

 EDIT: I did not see Kevin's post, so just like Kevin said.

oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Location: Australia
Posted: September 09, 2010 at 10:11 PM / IP Logged  
Kevin is right, but the same goes for any respectable anything - they should be self protecting (withing reason).
(At first I was going to disagree, then I re-read and realised Kevin wrote "Any respectable alarm will have the diode built in..." - not "Any respectable relay will have the diode built in...". The latter I do dot like!)
Keep in mind, the protection is for voltage spikes (not current surges etc).
As icearrow wrote, they are essentially when the coil de-energises, hence a HUGE negative spike that reverse-biases & fries electronics, and that's what the reverse-biased diode "quenches". Varistors would be required for positive spikes, but they are rare.
sequoia2006 
Copper - Posts: 63
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 13, 2010
Location: Washington, United States
Posted: September 10, 2010 at 12:48 AM / IP Logged  
From what I understand is that the collapse of the magnetic field would cause induced voltage greater than 12V+ so current will flow toward the 12V+. Would this cause any damage to other components in the car that connects to 12V+?
BTW, I have the viper 5901.
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