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ford door locks and alarm


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ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 07, 2010 at 1:49 PM / IP Logged  
I'm new to this forum, so I hope I can get some information here. I know there are some smart people out there that can help me figure out what's going on.
I have a 1997 Ford E-150 Mark III conversion van that I've spent the last year restoring and updating with new electronics. Here's my problem. I purchased a Camco RS-750 alarm system, which is the same as a CX2300 series Carvox and probably a few others with different names. I'm about to stab myself in the heart because of the amount of anger this install has caused me. First of all, the translation into English isn't very good. It takes a fairly good amount of "what to they mean by that" to try and figure out. On the first install the parking lights didn't work, the program functions wouldn't hold in memory, there was no (-) output for the dome light supervision circuit and other things would pop up, when I tried workarounds for the things that didn't work. I finally called the supplier an asked if he would sell me another control module. He said he would send me another whole unit if I uninstalled everything and sent it back to him. Well, you people know how much of a royal pain that would be to untape, unsolder and remove everything. I told him I would buy another control module if he would send it. He did and I installed it. I was in the process of testing all of the functions and everything was working when my interior door lock switches stop working. Lock or unlock, it didn't matter, no response. This Van has a Keyless Entry module which is mounted on the outside wall behind the drivers seat. It does not have a factory alarm system. I had to replace this module because the locks and the remote that controls the Lock/Unlock function didn't work. When I replaced the module, I said to myself, I should make an access panel for it. I didn't and it was a mistake that I'm paying for now. When the lock switches stopped working, I starting tracing all the wires. The wires that sent the signal to the RKE (remote keyless entry module) was getting the 12 volts for it to send 12 volts to the door lock motor. The RKE was not sending the the required voltage to trip the motors. I disconnected the alarm module from the truck, connected a battery charger, turned on the ignition key back and forth a few times tried the door lock switches and to my surprise they started working again. I then connected the alarm control module again. Everything worked ! The next morning the same thing happened. The alarm would not unlock the doors, but get this, The original key FOB would. When I opened the door the inside door lock switches wouldn't work. I have a full manual for this vehicle so I again started PIN checks, which lead me back to the Keyless Entry Module again. Ford manual says to replace the module based on the pin output test. So I started removing the wall panels to get access to the module. I removed the module, took the cover of of it to see if anything was visably wrong and there wasn't. I spent most of last night and this morning reading post from this forum. There was several articles about a Ford (Wake-UP) module for fords that would wake-up the Lock/Unlock switches and the keyless entry module so the switches would work. Again I reinstalled the keyless entry module and again it work without any problems. At this point the Alarm module is not installed. It seems that after several hours the keyless module goes to sleep. A few minutes ago I tried the inside lock switches and again they didn't work. I then turned the key to the start position but not far enough to turn the starter, tried the interior lock/unlock switch and they again worked. The Ford wiring schematic does not show a GEM (wake-up module) for this vehicle. Is there anyone that can tell me what I'm doing wrong or what is happing during those hours of non-usage that causes the Lock/Unlock interior switches to shut down. Again the vehicle is a 1997 Ford E-150 Mark III conversion van. It has Keyless Entry but does not have factory alarm. This was verified by locking the doors with the widow open with the key FOB and then reaching in and opening the door from the inside. No lights and no horn beeping. I hope someone can help me. Thanks, Dave
Ween 
Platinum - Posts: 1,364
Platinum spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2004
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: November 07, 2010 at 9:19 PM / IP Logged  
hi,
from the ford manual, the power feed to the door lock switches is also
the feed for courtesy lights, power mirrors, etc. do those devices operate normally? you have checked for power at the both door lock switches (light GREEN/ YELLOW). it appears the RKE module has two power feeds.. yellow/black and BLACK/ white. those both test ok? there is no GEM nor is there anything in the wiring to disable the doorlock switches after any amount of time...other than circuit protection i.e. fuses. visually inspect wiring, in the door harnesses, checking for broken wires possibly? if wiring tests ok (from the door lock switches) why not bypass the RKE completely? add a few relays to switch the door lock motor current using the factory doorlock switches to trigger them.
mark
roadshop570 
Copper - Posts: 128
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: August 25, 2009
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: November 07, 2010 at 9:26 PM / IP Logged  
To start next time purchase a DEI product, Viper, Python, etc, did you access your vehicles wiring info from this website? If not do you have the vehicle info? Most vehicles require additional relays for light flash, dome, as well as doorlocks, are you familiar with or know how to install relays? This might not be the answers ur looking for but Im just trying to start with the basics, and if ur not familiar with relays I would reccommend that you take the vehicle to a shop and have it installed. 
Chadillac
ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 07, 2010 at 11:38 PM / IP Logged  
Yes, I do agree with you about buying a product that is known, but if you knew how much I spent doing this project. It's always the way, things cost more then you think it will. So, nearing the end of the project money gets tight. You try and save where you can. In answer to your questions, there are relays in the main fuse panel under the hood that control the parking lights. There are relays in the remote keyless entry module for the interior lighting and the door lock/unlock functions. The only thing I found that was a question was type of door lock system. The info that I got from this website and others state that it has a negative door lock system, when in fact it needs a positive 12 volts at the pink / YELLOW and pink/light green at the drivers kick panel to operate the door locks. But it's the keyless entry module that processes that 12 volt signal and sends it out to the lock motors. I think this is because when using the OEM key FOB, the first pulse opens only the drivers door and the second open all the doors. If you use the interior door switches a single pulse opens and closes all doors. I thought that installing an Alarm and remote start and tying in to the OEM harness would be pretty much the way to go then to rewire the whole van's interior lighting system. I'll say again this is a conversion van with all kinds of interior lighting which is tied in to the Keyless entry module and Mark III's lighting module. This stuff all works and all the wiring is buried in the walls and the ceiling panels. I got everything to work on the Alarm and the remote start it's just that the interior door lock switches quit working. I disconnected the 2300 series alarm, reset the keyless entry module by disconnecting the battery and turning the key on and off a few times, and the lock switches work again. The only thing I can think of is, I had to replace the keyless entry module. Maybe is was a later year then mine and it included this GEM sleep mode for the lock switches and my van is not wired to wake-up that section of the module. But then again this problem did not happen before I installed the Alarm and Remote start. So my feeling it's something I'm missing and something that is not covered in the alarm's installation manual. I finally found a digital instruction manual on-line and it to is the same as the one I received with the Alarm.
ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 07, 2010 at 11:53 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks for your reply. The power to the door lock switches test good. Everything else in the doors work fine. When the switches are activated the 12 volts transfer to the proper wire that goes to the keyless entry module. These wires are in the drivers kick panel and go back to the module mounted behind the "B" pillar. The wires test good at the module. It seems like when I install the alarm I'm not doing something to isolate some input or output and the keyless entry module freezes and some switching component gets stuck until I unhook the alarm disconnect/reconnect power, turn the key of and on, and then the door switches work again. I'm afraid at some point I'm going to burn something out and the module won't reset itself.
Ween 
Platinum - Posts: 1,364
Platinum spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2004
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: November 08, 2010 at 5:52 AM / IP Logged  
might the door lock, unlock outputs of the aftermarket system latch on, and not pulse?...you should be able to check that rather easily. that may cause the RKE module to stop working, think of someone resting their hand on the doorlock switch. not familiar with the Camco product, how are the door lock outputs provided...negative pulse?
ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 08, 2010 at 7:55 AM / IP Logged  
Yes. I checked the output of the after market lock outputs in the single mode operation. Both the Lock and Unlock pulse for about .5 second as there suppose to. I thought the same with the first control module, that's why I checked the second before connecting the lock/unlock wires. The alarm has a total of 7 wires to connect. Some you connect and some you don't depending on type of door lock system. For a Positive pulse in my case I connect the following. Yellow and yellow/black to constant +12 volts, White and WHITE/ Black connect to the vehicle trigger wires. Pink/light/green for unlock and pink / YELLOW for lock. These wires are access at the drivers kick panel and are the same ones that go back to the OEM keyless entry module behind the "B" pillar. There is also a smaller Blue wire that is connected through a relay for a 2 pulse unlock sequence. Thinking about it, I have not tried this option. maybe the OEM module has to see the 2-pluse for the door lock to act the way it's suppose to. It's just the interior door switches that seem not to work and it's not right away, it's only after a a few hours or overnight. I haven't been able to trace down the amount of time it takes for this to happen. It can be as little as 30 minutes or as long as overnight, both of which has happened.
Ween 
Platinum - Posts: 1,364
Platinum spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2004
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: November 08, 2010 at 8:02 AM / IP Logged  
definitely thinking the RKE is bad. the RKE operates door locks, interior lamps, head and parking lamps and horn, i'd still go with eliminating it...but it can be removed without ill effects (well the power door locks would need to be rewired)
ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 08, 2010 at 8:55 AM / IP Logged  
I thought maybe the wire connections would help you guys             
Red-----------------------Constant +12 Volts------------Connected     
Brown---------------------Parking lights----------------Connected     
2nd Brown-----------------Higher current lights---------Not used      
RED / Black-----------------Trunk (-) 250mA---------------Not used      
Pink----------------------Siren-------------------------Connected     
Black---------------------Ground------------------------Connected     
Yellow--------------------Lock System 12 volts----------Connected     
Yellow/Black--------------Lock System 12 volts----------Connected     
White---------------------Lock System 12 volt trigger---Connected     
WHITE/ Black---------------Lock System 12 volt trigger---Connected     
Orange----------Lock System different application-------Not Used      
ORANGE / Black----Lock System different application-------Not Used      
7 Pin Harness            
Pin #1,GREEN / WHITE---------Factory Rearm----------------Not Used      
Pin #2,GREEN/ Black---------Factory Disarm---------------Not Used      
Pin #3,BLACK/ White---------Dome Light(use relay)--------Connected     
Pin #4,PURPLE / Black--------Aux (Window roll-up)---------Not Used      
Pin #5, WHITE/ black--------Aux Ch-5 (anything)----------Not Used      
Pin #6, Blue---------------Second Unlock--------Haven't used yet      
Pin #7, Orange-------------Starter Defeat relay---------Connected     
6 Pin Harness            
Pin #1, Yellow-------------Ignition 12 volt input-------Connected     
Pin #2, Brown--------------Brake 12 volt input----------Connected     
Pin #3, Black--------------Trunk pin switch-------------Not Used      
Pin #4, Gray---------------Hood pin switch--------------Connected     
Pin #5, Green--------------(-)Door pin switch-----Tried both ways     
Pin #6, Purple-------------(+)Door pin switch-----------Connected     
Heavy Gauge Remote Start Harness        
Pink-----------------------Ign #1, On and Cranking 12V-Connected     
Pink-----------------------Ign #2, 2nd Ign wire 12V when on--Yes      
Orange---------------------Accessory output------------Connected      
Purple---------------------Starter output -------------Connected      
8 Pin Harness            
Pins 1-4-------------------Alarm factory plug-in-------Connected      
Pin #5, Blue/White---------Bypass Module---------------Not Used       
Pin #6, Gray/Black---------Diesel wait to start--------Not Used       
Pin #7, PURPLE / White-------Tach wire input-------------Connected      
Plug in Harnesses        
4 Pin Black Connector-------Antenna/Shock sensor-------Connected      
4 Pin Red Connector---------Starter Module-------------Connected      
4 Pin White Connector-------Future Sensor plug-in------Not Used      
2 Pin White Connector-------Valet Switch---------------Connected     
2 Pin White Connector (lg)--Dash Mounted LED-----------Connected     
3 Pin Black Connector-------Microwave Sensor plug-in---Not Used
ydaveitsu 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2010
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: November 08, 2010 at 9:07 AM / IP Logged  
Well that didn't come out as I had written it. Hope you guys can figure it out. The Keyless Entry module was replaced before I installed the Alarm and worked in every way for over 6 mos. this only happens when the Alarm is hooked up.
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