car cranks but no start after alarm setup

I had someone from craigslist install a Viper 5701 (with remote start) on my 2000 Xterra last Saturday. It originally had an Audiovox 9232 alarm (basic security) which he had to rip out. But now the car would no longer start using the key or remote. It would crank but the engine would not fire up. I also tried jumpstarting the car but it makes no difference. This car has been working great before the Viper install. I don't think it's the distributor as that is new (installed about 6 months ago). Timing belt/etc also replaced a year ago. I don't have someone to check the distributor/rotor if it turns during cranking. I am not sure if the guy disconnected the battery during the install so I don't rule out broken fuse/links. My guess is that he didn't as he had to probe the wires. I noticed that when the original alarm was ripped out, the guy also ripped out a relay. I don't know where this relay came from but it has the following dangling wires attached to it: 30 - BLACK/ white 86 - orange 87 - none 85 - red 87a - black then there seems to be a diode between 86 and 85. My question is: Is this relay necessary for the Viper install (i would think if the previous alarm needed it, then the new alarm also might). Could its absence be causing the engine to not fire up? If so, how do I go about re-connecting it? Attached is the picture of this relay that was removed. Thanks so much.

That would have probably have been a starter cut relay. This is built in on the 5701 and that might be the problem. Surely it's down to your installer to put this right.

Another possibility is that the Viper is not connected to the cars' Second Starter wire ( Cold Start Fuel Enrichment ) .   Should be a GREEN/ YELLOW wire at the ignition switch.  If that wire is connected to the Pink/White wire at H3/7, then verify the Vipers Flex Relay programming is set to Starter2. 

Howard is right, return to the installer for repair.

Soldering is fun!

if you had it installed and now the car doesnt start, you should have him fix it.

The car does have 2 start wires, so make sure he didnt damage one of them OR forgot to plug back the plug for the immobilizier ring.

Ted

2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School

Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries

Compustar Expert

Thanks for the reply guys. I am not sure if the installer was aware of the 2-starter quirkiness of this Nissan. I sent him an email about what I found so far on the web but so far no response from him. He seems like a nice guy though so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and hopefully he'd get back to me soon. I am preparing for the worst though so I am going to try to understand this more. I am confused about the starter kill/immbolizer. The guy asked me if I wanted to keep the starter kill and I said yes (he said it's a relay). I don't know if the starter kill is an aftermarket thing and not part of the factory Xterra. A Home Depot copy of the key worked before so I assume that the Xterra has no immobilizer (unless that was part of the old Audiovox alarm?). howie ll, are you saying that the removed relay is likely the starter kill and that it's not necessary since it's built-in to the 5701? kreg357, once I verify the wires you mentioned, are you saying that I should select "Option 3 - Starter 2" for the "Flex Relay Function" selection (the other choices being "Opt 1 - Ignition 2", "Opt 2 - Accesory 2")? tedmond, about "forgot to plug back the plug for the immobilizier ring", may I ask for more details? I appreciate all the help guys and I apologize if I'm a little slow on these things :-). It's my first time with car security (though I installed amp/speakers/head-unit before). Right now, I don't want to tow the car to the Nissan Dealership as they would likely just fix it by getting the car to stock form. Thank you so much!

Yes for Flex Relay set for Starter2.,  Menu 3, Menu Item 8 to Option 3.  If you can find / see the Viper module under the dash, look for the H3 heavy gauge wire connector.  Find the H3/7 Pink/White wire and see if it goes to the GREEN/ YELLOW wire at the ignition switch harness.  Also make sure that the RED / White wire at H3/2 is connected to +12v constant and the 30 amp fuse is good.Soldering is fun!

Correct, 2000 Nissan Xterras do not require a bypass

Im the one that did the install. Dont blame this on me. The Audiovox alarm had a starter kill installed, which is the relay in the first picture. The 1st primary starter wire was ONLY cut. I reconnected the starter wire, so I could start the car to test for the tach wire. The car wouldnt start! I didnt even touch the 2nd starter wire and it wasnt cut.

Marlon is leaving out the fact that I didnt start the car before I even worked on the car. (My mistake) How do I know for a fact that the car even started before I touched the car? I dont. The problem is the car doesnt start with the key.

This isnt the first time that I installed something like this.........

Ok guys, it's now too dark and cold outside to look at the wires. So in the mean time, I thought I'd paste my email correspondence below with the installer in case it gives us more information to help in the diagnostics. -------------------------------------------------- <installer>, http://www.clubxterra.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7645 If you look at the web site above, someone seems to have the same problem as me. The Nissans seem to have 2 starter wires and people have to use a relay. I noticed that you removed a relay from the car. Could this relay that you removed be essential? How did you hook up the two starter wires? -------------------------------------------------- installer said: This isnt the same problem that you have. The relay that I removed was the old starter kill that you had with the alarm. Look at the relay. It probably either says Tyco or Audiovox. These relays come with Audivox alarms and they are for starter kills. Your car wont even start with the key and that is the problem right now. Before I removed the alarm, I should have checked that the car would start. If I knew it wouldnt start, I wouldnt have installed the new alarm. That was my mistake for not checking. Ive been doing this stuff for about 9 years, so I know what im doing. -------------------------------------------------- <installer>, The car was fine before the install. My wife arrived from work at 7AM that same morning using that car. I even offered you to move the car if you want. But anyway, I am not trying to imply anything. I know you did your best. I called Nissan and the fix they want to do is to get the car to stock form so I'm not too excited to bring the car to them. It seems that the Viper 5701 does have the flex relay built-in so we don't need to use a relay to connect the 2nd starter wire. However, the "Flex Relay Function" in the menu defaults to Ignition 2 and that has to be set to "Starter 2". If you can still remember, can you tell me how you wired the 2nd starter wire (GREEN/ YELLOW)? Thanks! marlon -------------------------------------------------- installer said: First of all, this has nothing to do with the 2nd starter wire or starter kill. When I removed the old alarm, it had the starter kill relay in. Which requires cutting the primary (1st) starter wire in half. (Thats all it is) When I was installing the Viper system, I reconnected the primary (1st) starter wire back just like stock, so I could test/look for the tach wire. The car didnt start with the key and it was in stock form. I showed you that it was in stock form. It did have wires hanging, but that will not keep the car from starting. I actually didnt touch the 2nd starter wire because your car doesnt start with the key. (Its not cut or anything) So until the car starts with the key, I cant finish it. You did offer to move the car for me, but that doesnt mean anything to me. Until I see that the car actually started, then I know it wasnt me. Changing the Flex Relay Function from Ignition 2 to Starter 2 is wrong. Ignition 2 needs to stay like that. You have to hook up a relay for the 2nd starter wire and it goes to the wire harness that I left in the Viper box. Like I said, the car wouldnt start even in stock form. <installer> -------------------------------------------------- <installer>, First of all, thanks for the responses. I understand where you are coming from if you think the car was broken in the first place. You also have to at least consider the possibility that the car was OK before you worked on it (why would I install a remote start if the car doesn't start by key in the first place, I'd only be wasting labor cost). Either way, it doesn't really matter to me now as I just need to get the car working and I would hope you would help me with that. I am not interested in finger-pointing as that is not productive. I'm also posting my issue to the12volt.com for the people there to help us. The things you mentioned below are valuable in the diagnostics so I'm going to post them as well (for your privacy, I'll take out your name). If you have anything else to add, please let me know. At this point, information is very important so I appreciate your responses to my questions. Thanks! Marlon

godd dan it wrote: Im the one that did the install. Dont blame this on me. The Audiovox alarm had a starter kill installed, which is the relay in the first picture. The 1st primary starter wire was ONLY cut. I reconnected the starter wire, so I could start the car to test for the tach wire. The car wouldnt start! I didnt even touch the 2nd starter wire and it wasnt cut. Marlon is leaving out the fact that I didnt start the car before I even worked on the car. (My mistake) How do I know for a fact that the car even started before I touched the car? I dont. The problem is the car doesnt start with the key. This isnt the first time that I installed something like this.........

Dan, Thanks for responding and standing up! I am not blaming you. I know doodie happens and it doesn't have to be anybody's fault. I know you did your best. I even felt bad that you had to stay that many hours to try and diagnose stuff so I appreciate your effort. I hope we won't get into a blame-game as that is not my style. I am still very much interested to work with you on this so we can get my car working. That's all that matters to me. Thanks and God bless! Marlon