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3 days of trial/error still stumped


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howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 3:41 AM / IP Logged  
Craig, on the poster's third post.
Also could you email me please, we need to talk, Oldspark knows what it's all about.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 4:02 AM / IP Logged  
The driver's door motor wire will be a wire coming from the lock module and running into the driver's door, probably the best test place is if there's a plug in the driver's kick panel.
With your meter, 20VDC setting, place the black probe to a good ground and test the suspect wire with the red, it should go to 12v+ for 0.8 seconds on unlock. Then still with your black on ground set the meter to continuity buzzer or low ohms, it should read ground at rest* that's the driver door unlock.
Physical test, cut that wire, then with the doors locked, flash it to a 12v+ constant, it should only unlock the driver's door.
*Alternative test; with DMM set to 20VDC, place black probe on wire and red to 12v+ constant, you should get 12v+ at rest and 0V on unlocking.
I'll post a diagram.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 4:50 AM / IP Logged  
Here we go, you will need 2 relays and a 1N4004 diode.
I've used DEI wiring where known except the "second unlock" or aux, early versions nominated a second unlock wire, later versions just let you use a particular aux; see your instructions.
I've "assumed" orange as the lock/unlock multiplex trigger wire you now have and brown as the existing motor wire because they look pretty!
Don't forget the 1N4004 diode inline on the 85 wire to the right hand relay, it might save the life of your R/S, relays spike on shut down and send a couple of hundred volts back up that line, Mr I graphically explained that once.
Your vehicle will lock all the doors as normal; on unlock the left hand relay operates as a "5 wire" to break the ground continuity (see my last post) and feed pos to the motor. On the second unlock pulse the right hand relay feeds through the resistor to the existing lock/unlock trigger wire to unlock the other doors.
Look at, read and try to "catch" the current flow:- multiplex_priority_unlock.bmp
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 4:56 AM / IP Logged  
The driver's door motor wire will be a wire coming from the lock module and running into the driver's door, probably the best test place is if there's a plug in the driver's kick panel.
With your meter, 20VDC setting, place the black probe to a good ground and test the suspect wire with the red, it should go to 12v+ for 0.8 seconds on unlock. Then still with your black on ground set the meter to continuity buzzer or low ohms, it should read ground at rest* that's the driver door unlock.
Physical test, cut that wire, then with the doors locked, flash it to a 12v+ constant, it should only unlock the driver's door.
*Alternative test; with DMM set to 20VDC, place black probe on wire and red to 12v+ constant, you should get 12v+ at rest and 0V on unlocking.
I'll post a diagram.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 4:59 AM / IP Logged  
Errata!!!
The last two posts are in the wrong bloody order, also where I mention the second lock wire OR an aux and show it as a violet/black on my diagram, this should be wire H2/1 light blue, listed as second lock wire.
One day I'll actually look at the install guide BEFORE doing the diagram.
supern00b 
Member - Posts: 7
Member spacespace
Joined: November 11, 2011
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 2:30 PM / IP Logged  
Wow thanks howie, I think i already have a relay and a diode as well, However i'm not sure what type of diode it is but i can always go to the electronics store and ask them for that specific type of diode.
When you first started were you as lost as i am or did someone teach you the ins and outs of this?
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 5:23 PM / IP Logged  
If you were asking me, I'd say I'm too old to remember and that Howie is older than me... But Howie has a great memory.
I'd simply say that most of us are not born with it. (The 2002 Mazda Protege5 is definitely NOT in my genetic memory!)
We all start somewhere.
And how we get "here" is irrelevant, though the lucky or talented will have had others to learn from or been able to think and question and improve.
Eventually we all strike a new car or problem. Then it's a case of reduction - break it into segments (whether testing, or tracing; solve & learn one segment/section at a time).
Keeping "the big picture" in mind - ie, the overall (expected) circuit - is often an advantage provided that doesn't confuse the issue.
One advantage is knowledge. I often say that everything is the same - only different. That seems to come when you know enough to see the similarities, but even when beginning, it helps to draw analogies between with what you already know. (Electricity as water comes to mind.)
Unfortunately with knowledge, people forget the early learning. Though my fellow students once said I had my "head in the clouds" (and it was only some years ago I realised how absolutely correct they were LOL! - and they are still "down there"!), I am amazed that they cannot relate to the difficulties of early learning. I still feel and understand the "trickiness" of clicking to a concept or "having the penny drop" and take great or excessive pains to overcome that.
I could go on about the similarly parallel but incorrect ideas people have that only become evident with some high-level or detailed problem/discussion. I still have "path resets". (One example is oil-pressure controlled gasoline fuel pumps for vehicles. It took me 30 years to see how flawed that was. But smaller "resets" are not uncommon.)   
We all learn differently. I seem to be able to see or understand the high-order concept or desire whilst being able to apply or learn the detail. IMO having "both ends" is not only advantageous, but very important.
But the basics and detail are the most important from "our" POV as hobbyists and installers etc.
A bit at a time, and with good solid information.
And always a wariness for the new, the misunderstood, and false egotism...
I'll leave it to Howie to disagree.
I just figured I'd get in before he gets up LOL.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 5:50 PM / IP Logged  
I partly disagree, I've had no formal training but years of experience, I know diodes and relays back to front, more type of relays from Jadeco to Bosch than you could imagine but can I test a transistor or design a circuit to include an NPN?
Of course not, I leave that to Mr. Oldie, Mr. Pierson amd Mr. Idiot.
Forget it but I can "SEE" current flow; back to the water analogy.
I'm lousy with my hands but like circuit design I always find someone to "put that A pillar trim back".
I'm a super fast learner and I still play mind training games even at my age, practising memory retention, I can still list the wiring configuration for the original Minis.
You learn by rote and mistakes, the trick is to damage limit the mistake and avoid it the next time.
If your diode is 1 amp or more and 100piv, then you're OK.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 6:24 PM / IP Logged  
Dang! He's up already... Rats.
But Howie "partly disagrees". Rubbish - you DO remember!
No - I don't think Howie disagrees - I think I understated and even omitted self-education...
And that is strange considering how I consider that the most important.
Or rather, that qualifications do not mean knowledge and expertise.
Despite my uni degree and post-grad qualifications, I received my education BEFORE that. There is little I can attribute to later formal education except for maths (hence I know of - but have never since used - Fourier transforms, s-domain analysis, complex integration, etc), and the post-grad marketing and business stuff.
uni was a nice way of understanding what I had been doing in practice those years before. But when I pointed out that pracs have been incorrectly answered for years etc etc.
Let's say I had little choice but to continue my "self education"!
But I just wanted to "not disagree" with Howie and correct my omission.
And say "listed to Howie".
And to sarcastically point out that despite all my gaff - who answered your question...?
1A 100PIV or greater...
Not that I EVER get distracted!
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 12, 2011 at 6:33 PM / IP Logged  
Back to the point of hands on is the best education.
You WILL make mistakes, just learn from them. The person who claims never to have made a mistake is either delusional or a bloody liar!
Don't panic, it's 12:31 am here and for the next 90 minutes we're 6 hours ahead of US Eastern Seaboard and about 10 hours behind you; so I ain't gone to bed yet.
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