capacitor debate keep it clean

Oldspark, I'm the one that said capacitors charge and discharge... you stated earlier that its a current flow... please explain this.. The idea of a capacitor is not to have a large reserve... batteries can recover, (what is this recovery process doing to the battery? Its not called recovering, its called charging, as long as the potential difference between terminals is increasing then the battery is CHARGING because it is not DISCHARGING) and please will you just explain yourself and site your sources, stop sending me other places because you have nothing to support your argument. Its a DEBATE not a "I can't answer this question just go and read this" As batteries are able to self recover, capacitors CANNOT, why? Because its 2 plates with a dielectric in between them! Nooooo current flow!! Do the CALCS!!! (Aka you're wrong, your statement is false) Now I know you like to break things into quotations, so if you could please respond to the 3 statements I have included above. RFHVHTOO- rockford fosgate hit very hard too, I've had it since aol was the fastest at 56kbps so before making up good screennames were cool lolI can't hear you!

" and please will you just explain yourself and site your sources, stop sending me other places because you have nothing to support your argument. Its a DEBATE not a "I can't answer this question just go and read this" " and what are your sources? if you are correct then why cant you do the calculations and post them?

soundnsecurity wrote: " and please will you just explain yourself and site your sources, stop sending me other places because you have nothing to support your argument. Its a DEBATE not a "I can't answer this question just go and read this" " and what are your sources? if you are correct then why cant you do the calculations and post them?

My resources is myself, I'm citing my own research in a lab at the university of florida, I don't need an article to TELL me how these work, I've seen it with my own eyes, with instruments much more accurate than a hand held oscilloscope, capacble of measurements to the nano second. If you can't understand the concept, you can't understand the equation. Equations are being thrown in the air left and right but no one is explaining anything. Except basic physics. Y'all HAVE NOT mentioned the word joules yet! In one of the equations! Which are ESSENTIAL to capacitors.I can't hear you!

using yourself as a source can only work if you submit research and observations to everybody else for peer review so that your observations and conclusions drawn from those observations can be agreed upon by everybody else. just saying "trust me" isnt good enough in any debate. until you can support your argument with some sort of evidence then this is a pointless exercise.

My

soundnsecurity wrote: using yourself as a source can only work if you submit research and observations to everybody else for peer review so that your observations and conclusions drawn from those observations can be agreed upon by everybody else. just saying "trust me" isnt good enough in any debate. until you can support your argument with some sort of evidence then this is a pointless exercise.

you have no information standing in this debate, so your opinion is invalid... until you come up with an argument, or an idea. Please post away. The research that I'm stating isn't based on my research alone its in THE TEXTBOOKS, would you like to read it? Ill send you a ebook. What I'm talking about is only the basics of understanding capacitors, research shouldn't even be needed in this process its only the CONCEPT. What I'm stating as my research is the labs I've done to validate these concepts.I can't hear you!

rfhvhtoo, did you look at the links I posted? If you did, hopefully it should not take much for you too realise how false YOUR claims are. I've already said that it is charge - ie, current - that charges a battery. Please google for how a capacitor works, or review those links. So a capacitor is NOT to have a large reserve? Thank you - you have just agreed with why we continuously state that caps are useless for 12V audio supply purposes (as compared to a battery (excluding AGM protection and "remote" voltage smoothing). I guess that's why audio forums say you only need 0.5F and not 1F or 10F etc. Mind you, I thought the usual desire for a power cap was to MAINTAIN the amp's voltage - ie, have sufficient capacity to "ride through" a burp or 5-second high demand that the alternator can't supply.    Again, battery self recovery is NOT recharging. There is absolutely ZERO recharging involved. It is merely stabilisation of its chemicals that increase its internal voltage. (So too is "surface charge" though that does involve its "excess" current or rather, its additional surface charge.) A battery can only recharge with an external source. So capacitors do not involve current flow? I beats me why power capacitors (for mains/AC use) are "specified" for different currents (based on their hold up time with 50Hz or 60Hz with or an acceptable voltage sag). But in that case, what do they involve - voltage with no current - ie, no power? Good - you have just shown why caps are useless. I guess that link showing the LED lighting with a series capacitance is false, as are other sites and books and the theory and equations that confer the same. I must find out why my ciruits work if the current isn't flowing thru the series (and un-paralleled) cap - maybe it's flowing thru the cap's plastic insulating cover, or arcing thru the air. Or maybe you have discovered a tunneling-capacitor!    You want to compare Joules? Calculate the Joules in a 1F cap and compare that to a battery. What was it? - a typical car battery has 10,000,000 times the Joules of a 1F cap? (Another 12volter supplied the correct figures the last time I posted similar.) Start by replying with the number of Joules for a 1F capacitor discharging fro 14.4V to 12.6V - or similar figures of your choosing. If have explained to the best I can without spending time rethinking my explanations so that you might understand easier. But I won't detail or repeat basic knowledge and tutorials that are so available on the web and elsewhere. That's a waste of my time. It's a different matter if someone needs clarification to some site's or source's meaning. However, it seems this thread has come to a natural ending since you have not provided info sources. Ergo, we are all operating from "opinion" (excluding the links and their links). My opinion is based on a reasonable understanding of electronic and electric theory, and having debunked various crap; having done what others have claimed is impossible; and revolutionised certain industry practices, equipment specifications, and designs by coming up with novel alternatives or, again, showing how wrong or false certain "accepted" practices were. Others here may be similar, but certainly have decades of experience as well as a history dealing with issues like this. A quick read of this site should make their expertise obvious - many times solving what other industry "experts" and equipment/vehicle originators can't. BTW - when you quote sources, don't quote floridaspl unless its from one of the few that do offer correct information. Same for other car-audio forums except for the few reputable "source" forums. [If Tommy thinks this is a headspin, check out what those forums (and Yahoo Answers) etc write. OMG!]    If you want to discuss REAL problems you are having, we'll take it from there and determine where they are occurring. If you really want to solve the problem, the break away from the present moronic amplifiers. Split its PSU and move that to the battery/alternator, then run its smaller cables (maybe +ve, GND, and -ve) to the amp. Honestly, an industry that maximises input current (by sticking to 12V) and carries that over long heavy conductors, and uses 1-Ohm loads instead of 4 or 8 Ohm etc...

OK, this is getting nasty, like I assumed it would.  Locked.Support the12volt.com