power distribution

Electricity follows the path of least resistance, which in this case is the diode. It could flow to the control circuitry (wireless switch) if the diode wasn't present.

Ween wrote: Electricity follows the path of least resistance, which in this case is the diode. It could flow to the control circuitry (wireless switch) if the diode wasn't present.

So I did understand it correctly. (There may be hope for me yet!) Thanks, Mark.

I've been through this lately, myself.. I have approximately 15 relays under the hood, and I haven't even installed my security and remote start system yet. (I have a relay for each separate high and low beam, horns, winch controller, driving and fog lights, etc). My wiring was getting rather alarming, to be blunt. What I did was looked into marine power distribution equipment. I specifically wanted something that would take the weather, was protected against shorts, and was decidedly anti-bling (I deplore chrome, gold plating, etc.. basically anything you see that would be found in an autosound competition vehicle). The Blue Sea brand of distribution panels and fuse panels are pretty much the last word in all of these requirements. Having said this- I am reminded that I still have the nasty "two relays taped together and butt-crimped into my harness" assemblage on the passenger's side, so will be doing that up proper today. I HATE crimp terminals, they're only suitable for temporary use (which apparently in my case means something like 6 years ;) ) unless they're also soldered. I can abide crimped ring terminals for ground or attachment to a bussbar, only if they are also soldered and heatshrunk. But hey- you're talking to an Engineer who left mobile electronics to literally go do installations on Nuclear aircraft carriers and submarines. So to me the only way to do it right, is to overdo it. I build replacement battery cables out of 2/0 welding cable with silver-soldered lugs, then heatshrink with marine-grade heatshrink (which contains an adhesive, making the assembly completely watertight). I have *never* had anything I build for more than temporary use come back for rework. Yes, it takes more time to do each connection this way-- but when I'm done, I'm *done*!

Thank you for that! I enjoyed reading your words - you speak like I do. And I couldn't agree more; over-building is rarely a bad idea. It's interesting that this was posted just now, actually, because during the last 36 hours I have been educating myself about solderless terminal crimping (and the associated tools). As with almost every "technical" activity, there as a big collection of backyard mechanic -calibre tools...and a smaller collection of hi-grade I-make-my-living-with-these-tools tools. ** Just as an aside, I went through this same adventure with my RC helicopter electrical issues. And I discovered the most fantastic process I've ever seen (and which I use exclusively to this day) It's called "Anderson Power Poles" and let me tell you - it is the bomb. You buy the proper tool for the contacts, and you never look back. Anyway - it's no secret that the common plastic-sleeved crimp terminals for 12v work are sub-optimal in may respects; I don't know anyone who LOVES them. But yesterday & today as I was poring over articles and reviews online I discovered that - if you do it right (with the right parts, the right tools & the proper technique) those things are fine. They're used more extensively than I would have thought in aeronautics, too. And -- let's face it -- there really aren't that many alternatives at the 22g to 16g level! So - I learned that the "typical" combo pliers (the ones that cut, crimp, strip, [supposedly] cut small bolts, call 911 if you fall down etc. - and often come with an assortment of 100 crimp connectors) stamped out of 1/8" thick metal...are crap-ola. And I can't say I'm surprised to hear that! Some of the pros say that the shallow concave sculpted jaws are one of the biggest negatives, because it's so difficult to CONSISTENTLY deliver the exact amount of force to compress the ring just right to hold securely without crushing (which increases resistance) The answer? Ratcheting pliers. Huh?! Did you say "ratcheting" pliers?! You mean the exact same style that I use for the aforementioned process-from-heaven? (Anderson Power Poles)?! Yup. And -- just like those other ones -- (and to be frank, to my ongoing frustration) you can spend anywhere from $100 -ish...right down to $16 to pick up a pair of your own. But let's not open that particular can of worms. This actually got its start two days ago because -- when I went to buy the relays -- I also picked up some waterproof "flag" insulated solderless terminals. Hmm - flag, eh? These'll free up a little space inside my project box! But I was dismayed to discover that: a) the inner metal sleeve is manufactured out of a crush-proof Molybdenum/Titanium alloy b) the aforementioned crap-ola crimpers cannot be used, because the cutting jaws would split the grippy part of the connector! (because the barrel is at right angles to the terminal) I went ahead and made up a couple with a vise (insert maniacal 'I-win-again' laughter here) but I was soon crawling the 'net for a better option. I finally found these: "Electrolux!" I shouted. No - hold on - it was "Eureka!" So I'm trying to find a pair that I can afford without taking a fifth mortgage on the house. So far it's looking good, but obviously I don't want the flag equivalent of crap-ola! So I am wearing my skeptics beanie and reading lots & lots.

I know Powerpoles very well. I switched over to them for my RC uses about 25 years ago. When I got my HAM ticket, I standardized on them for all 12VDC equipment in my shack. Even today, every vehicle I own has a 45-amp Powerpole setup for maintaining the battery with a float charger. I also have the 350-amp powerpoles front and rear on my vehicles, with a 20-foot pigtail with battery clamps on the end. To say I get *the weirdest looks* when I give people a jumpstart, is understating things! I don't crimp the contacts on for any of these, however- I just silver-solder them. You'll find literally thousands of pages on the web where supposedly-educated people go on at length about how a non-crimped connection will eventually fail as there's no mechanical bond. Well, yes there is- a properly soldered terminal IS a mechanical bond by way of the wetting action of the solder. They'll say that if the connection heats up, it will liquefy the solder and let go. Well, look into the temperature required for that to happen- if your connections are experiencing that kind of temperature (without the components having caught on fire from other problems) then you have done something massively wrong in your design of the build. Simply put- these concerns are BS. Now will I hammer-crimp a large-gauge ring terminal on, and then solder it? Sure- *if* I am in a hurry and can't find my "third hand" to hold things in place while I solder, and the terminal I am using is not designed to slide into a housing (thus necessitating clearance issues that can arise from deforming (crimping) the terminal. In other words, I'll only do it for ring terminals like you'd use on a starter. But I won't ever *just* crimp it and put it into production. You get less current flow that way, more heating of the connection, more opportunity for water and contaminants to enter (especially a concern in the environment a starter works in, for example)with the ensuing eventual failure of the connection. Solder it so all visible copper is wet with solder, heatshrink over that, and use the same connection for a lifetime.

For some reason I can't see the pic you've inserted. Maybe because I'm new here? There's actually a pretty darn good ratcheting crimper available at OReilly's. I bought it about 6 months ago when I had a quick job on a neighbor's boat (he didn't want everything soldered together, long story!) and couldn't find my old Stake-on crimpers (FYI- the Stake-On and Klein crimpers like this: http://www.ironworkerstool.com/v/vspfiles/photos/Klein%201005-2.jpg are the only non-ratcheting crimpers that would pass inspection on the jobs I did for the Navy). The ratcheting crimper at Oreilly is this part, I believe: http://www.oreillyauto.com /site/c/detail/SG00/18900 /N0221.oap?ck=Search_ N0221_1362822_-1& pt=N0221&ppt=C0371 The handles on mine are yellow but it is otherwise identical. Whatever hand tool you use for mechanically-connected wires, keep them lubricated both for protection and ease of use - both of which contribute to consistent performance. That gets us into another discussion, though. I'll leave that for another time, and just say I use Froglube for anything not involving an internal combustion engine... everything from my guns to my hand tools.

For your concerns for breaking a single large ("mains") feeder cable down to smaller ("branch") circuit feeder cables: I recommend using this: http://www.bluesea.com/ products/category/ PowerPost_Connectors/ PowerPost_Plus It has a 3/8" stud in the middle, approx. 6 (or is it 8, I am going from memory of my build) smaller screws for the branches in a ring around it, all of which are electrically insulated from the base, and conductive to each other. It also includes a boot for the main connection, and when you assemble it all (crimping and soldering the ring terminals to connect to the branches, then heatshrinking over the terminals as I've already gone into way too much discussion about :D ), there is very little opportunity for a short to occur to ground. As always- fuse or CB (circuit breaker, preferred) within a foot of the battery to protect the vehicle (so something in the neighborhood of 100-amp+ ampacity), and each circuit individually- which gets us to my next point: http://www.bluesea.com/ products/category/ Fuse_Blocks/ ST_Blade . There are versions with or without a bussbar for the ground connections. I use part number 5035, as we're dealing with a built-up 4X4 in my case- the bussbar really is only needed when you're doing some marine work- as the boats tend to be built of non-conductive fiberglass, so you need somewhere to ground everything. The 5035 uses commonly-available automotive medium-format blade fuses (ATO or ATC), has a latched cover to protect the circuits, and if you use it in combination with Smartfuses (which have an LED in parallel with the main circuit to indicate when they've blown), it only takes a glance to check the status. Seems like you're using all of this on a 4X4 as well, as you're discussing large-format HIDs and such. I have to ask- why stick with the wireless remote system for these? Why not just hardwire them (in this case meaning forego the wireless fob inside the vehicle for a toggle switch controlling the relay pack you're referring to).

Another suggestion: It seems like you're wanting to do this partly to keep the wiring neat for the relays, making service and troubleshooting bad relays in future, much easier. I've been through that, too. Long ago I used to solder directly to the relay (stupid!) and then I went through a time when I used solderless female crimp-on terminals with relays- which made servicing the circuit much easier, so long as I was able to change one lead at a time, and never took two leads off of a relay at once. A couple years back, I found these relay sockets on Ebay (yeah, I know- but there is some gold out there!) from a vendor that went by "TheInstallBay". Let me see if I can scare them up for you.... Yup, here they are: http://www./itm/10X-The -Install-Bay-RL3040-12V- 30-40-AMP-Bosche-Style-Relay -w-Socket-10-Pack-/321166484999 ?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash =item4ac703a607 Now those are pretty generic looking relays and sockets, right? Look closely- the bases all snap together (yet are easily disassembled) which makes working with relays MUCH easier. Now you build them into modules you need, label the base (I label the back of them with a Brother labeler) and you can remove every relay you've put into your vehicle at once, if need be for servicing- without worries of confusing wire mess on reassembly. More's the point, when you have everything in service, all of the relays are connected together- which makes them super easy to bolt down to the vehicle- I use #10 self-drilling screws into sheetmetal, and done. I will usually even ground the coil side to the holddown screw if I am not using it for trigger. You can spend a lot more on this stuff- but this works extremely well, is overbuilt to a satisfying degree, and looks about as stock as you're apt to get it. Now there is an available solution from Bussman that not only looks OEM but is actually used by several OEMs, but then you're getting into being nickled and dimed for every contact, waterproof plug, and so on. I don't know about you, but I've had my 4x4 in situations where I was about to ingest water (so the engine was almost submerged, and the switchgear was completely under), and even so the lights and wich still worked just fine. I think the most important concern, electrically speaking, is for the lamps, winchmotor, and relays to be waterproof- everything else is going to be fine if it gets a little wet. On a sidenote, might need to pick your brain about your lighting choices- I am still on the fence if I want to go HID for my aux lighting, or just stick with the dependable old Hella 500s I've been running for years. I have time yet, though, as I still need to finish up a few things on the solid axle swap- like build a bumper to mount the lights and winch to!

ronemca wrote: ....I don't see myself mounting a post thru any sort of box. Not only because it introduces additional/superfluous/unnecessary connections, but also because it creates at least one more place for corrosion that needn't be present, because...

I quite agree, having been the route of the insulated through-stud. I ended up removing it and drilling out the hole for a simple rubber grommet

ronemca wrote: I have a two-piece silicone-lined firewall pass-through which will permit me to run my 8g feeder straight from the battery to the distribution block in one uninterrupted length.

Someone's been browsing in the boating section! :)

ronemca wrote: Admittedly the end result will not be completely waterproof (as it likely would be with your suggestions) but it'll be damn close. And a lot better than what I have NOW.

Actually, if you're using the assembly I think you are, you may be interested to note that they ARE completely waterproof when used for single cables. In fact there are several US Navy ships with the superstructure penetrated for HELIAX cable with those connections, that I personally placed there. They've had no problems at all. But yeah, I wouldn't use it on a submarine...

ronemca wrote: Besides - this is not a creek-swimming Humvee we're talking about here;

Having done my share of Humvee driving through slop in the US Army, I Can tell you- they are FAR from waterproof!

ronemca wrote: if I am submerged deeply enough that my relay box is in danger of being swamped I'll have bigger things to occupy my mind than a few wires under the hood!

Holy crap, someone else on the Internet finally "gets it"!

ronemca wrote: BTW - do any of you have an opinion and/or first-hand experiences to share re: the three blocks I pictured above?

I think two of the blocks are actually the same, from different perspectives. I have both of the ones I can discern as different units in the pics above, in my toolbox. When I was going through this concern with my build, I bought them with the intent that they'd be "The solution". They aren't. Concerns: The metal parts are all unprotected- no plastic covers or such. This includes the base under the stud for supply to the block, and the base forming the spade connections for the block. It would be very easy to short this to ground while working under the hood. I don't believe this would be a concern for moisture, with the possible exception of coming across the right solution of suspended salts and contaminants in a hole you're traversing- as you may know, water is actually an insulator- it's the contaminants suspended in solution that make it conductive. Honestly, water as a shorting medium for what we're building probably is much ado about nothing. But it's entirely possible to short across these units to ground if working under the hood and you're not prone to follow the old adage of "disconnect the battery whenever you open the hood" (amateurs!) So no, I won't use them. But I'll make you a deal if you want them. As they sit now, they're wasted money and will end up in the trash.

Ween wrote: It would be a 1N400* series diode...1N4004 is fine. Connect the cathode (banded) side of the diode to the positive side of the coil, anode to the negative. On a bosch type relay, terminal 86 is typically the positive, terminal 85 the negative. More info can be seen here: http://electronicsclub.info/diodes.htm

You might want to go back to diode school: https://www.the12volt.com/diodes/diodes.asp I will of course recheck this with my DMM, but I went through this last night while building my system on the bench...