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DBALL2 Canbus Issue


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howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: July 02, 2014 at 4:33 PM / IP Logged  
Yes that's how I do it, incidentally I was told yesterday NEVER to solder them!
I still don't see how the DB-ALL2 could affect the car. I'm with racerjames here.
In the UK VAG cars are notorious for CPU problems, you were unlucky, get the dealer to put their findings in writing and tell them you'll be informing DEI. bet they back down.
racerjames76 
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Joined: November 22, 2008
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: July 03, 2014 at 9:43 AM / IP Logged  
howie ll wrote:
...get the dealer to put their findings in writing and tell them you'll be informing DEI. bet they back down.
That is actually a brilliant idea! DBALL2 Canbus Issue - Page 2 -- posted image.
To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*
cw6mt mkvigli 
Member - Posts: 13
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Joined: January 27, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: July 03, 2014 at 9:59 AM / IP Logged  

Thank you so much for all the advice. I was thinking, since i don't have an aftermarket alarm system would the dball2 still be sending unlock, lock, trunk pop signals to my vehicle's canbus? If it's only configured for RSR with the OEM remote wouldn't the only circuits receiving signals from the dball2 be the ignition circuits? I would think it would only need inputs to the can hi and can lo ports to sense tach, hood position, etc? Please correct any discrepancies in my understanding.

I guess i'm one of the unlucky one. The issue with the car is actually regarding the j519 CECM. The backup camera would only work when the headlights switch is in the "On" position, when the headlight switch is in the "On" position one of the driver side reverse light stays on as if it thinks it's a rear fog light, the DRL LED's no longer function and the turn lamps in the headlight assemblies stay on continuously if they fog light switch is in the off position, regardless if the steering wheel is straight or turned. 

catback 
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Posted: July 03, 2014 at 1:35 PM / IP Logged  
The Dball and everything on the can bus communicates in a two-way conversation. It's a party line of sorts and every thing on the line hears and monitors the line regardless of if what's being said at any given moment is address to them.
Unfortunately, if the dealer states the vehicle becomes fixed and functions normally just by removing a non-certified aftermarket device from the communication bus then there's not much you can argue. They (the dealer) can prove the fix and it's not their place to defend, troubleshoot, or try to make non-factory authorized devices work.
DEI won't take responsibility because they don't want the liability or bills past, present, or future. Hence why they throw it back on the installer who's job it is to ensure an install doesn't damage the vehicle and that the vehicle is working and functioning normally after the install.
Fortunately, the repair is easy and the vehicle has not had permanent damage to it's electronic systems.
cw6mt mkvigli 
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Posted: July 03, 2014 at 1:42 PM / IP Logged  

The funny thing is, removing the dball2 only fixes the backup camera issue while all the other issues are still present.

The remote start system was even disconnected before taking the car in for service. I unplugged the harnesses which would input into the dball2 (the car is a manual and i didn't want the service guy remote starting the car while it's in gear) so how did removing the physical wire terminations fix only the backup cam issue?

They are charging me $510 for diagnosing and fixing only the camera issue. They are still trying to figure out whats wrong with the rest of the J519.

catback 
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Posted: July 03, 2014 at 3:16 PM / IP Logged  
Things I can't answer because I'm not the installer, the DEI hardware maker/software programmer, the dealer service tech, or any of the vehicle design engineers.
All I can say is no one is going to willingly take fault for expensive computer systems being messed up. Obviously, you don't want the bill, DEI doesn't want the bill for an unauthorized/untrained install, and the dealer/factory doesn't want to foot the bill for some aftermarket device that they never tested for compatibility.
When you tinker with things doodie can happen. Usually installs of this sort go fine but not always, your just one of these not always cases. As the installer without factory/DEI backing your work is self-insured, if something should happen - the car burn the ground - then it's on you unless you can prove otherwise.
catback 
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Posted: July 03, 2014 at 3:33 PM / IP Logged  
I should add that tapping into the CAN or any data bus is not for the uninitiated. There are rules on how and where things attach to the bus. The rules are in place to prevent data collision and cross-talk. A properly functioning device, well installed, tapped into the wrong part of the can bus backbone can cause system communications to fail even if the device is known/tested to work in the system IF properly connected to the data bus.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
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Posted: July 03, 2014 at 3:42 PM / IP Logged  
Mods, could this thread go to the Hot Topics section?
I particularly liked catback's last two posts.
cw6mt mkvigli 
Member - Posts: 13
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Joined: January 27, 2014
Location: New York, United States
Posted: July 07, 2014 at 7:23 AM / IP Logged  

As for installation the canbus hi and lo were all tapped as per the location specified in the dball2 installation guide. I just don't see how it could be proven that the dball2 specifically targeted the backup camera signal alone while all other canbus circuits remained fully operable, with the exception of the faulty DRL module which they also blammed on the dball2. All said and done i got the car back minus $1500.

They installed a new CECM (J519) and programmed the module's long coding and everything was back to normal. All my years on the job of dealing with PLC modules, ladder logic, contactors, SSR's, etc i have never heard of a low voltage data line that uses binary coding protocol having power surges and wiping out only 2 specific components on the entire network. 

In the end it is an aftermarket product so I guess there is no arguing that aspect. Thank you everyone who took the time to chime and for sharing your knowledge on this matter.

racerjames76 
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Joined: November 22, 2008
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Posted: July 07, 2014 at 9:44 AM / IP Logged  
I have been away for the holiday, but was just re-reading this thread. Glad your car is working again but I did see this important bit of info. May be worth noting moving forward especially if this thread gets pinned. Pertinent information is highlighted below.
cw6mt mkvigli wrote:

The remote start system was even disconnected before taking the car in for service. I unplugged the harnesses which would input into the dball2 (the car is a manual and i didn't want the service guy remote starting the car while it's in gear) so how did removing the physical wire terminations fix only the backup cam issue?

They are charging me $510 for diagnosing and fixing only the camera issue. They are still trying to figure out whats wrong with the rest of the J519.

the car is a manual
The install guide does not list manual transmission coverage for the DBALL in RSR mode.
Correct me if I am wrong in deducing that you circumvented the safety devices on your vehicle and in a manual transmission safe remote start system. This may be the source of your issues. At least may have contributed. We don't know what codes could be different on a manual vs automatic PCM/BCM. Definitely shines a different light on the matter.
To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*
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