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Advice, Solderless Crimpers


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ronemca 
Copper - Posts: 107
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: July 25, 2014 at 9:21 PM / IP Logged  
I know - I know - I know...sometimes tools made in China are crap. Likewise - usually ya get what ya pay for.
But occasionally -- and this is particularly true for weekend/driveway mechanics like me -- El Cheapo tools are satisfactory.
But I think I applied the aforementioned reasoning to the wrong tool:
I have a love/hate relationship with solderless connectors. Of course they're convenient...and fast...and easily replaceable...and cheap...and fuss-free...but they are also less secure/reliable than solder joints. So I figured:
If I buy a dedicated crimping tool (rather than the punched flat steel strippers/crimpers/bolt cutters/eyebrow pluckers that I have always used) I should be able to consistently crimp solderless connectors nicely....securely...and without CRUSHING them flat. I was excited - let me tell you! How brilliant! It's gonna be SO much better than the way I've been doing it for 30 years!
So off I went into the secret and frightening world of the WWW.
As you can probably predict, I found exactly what I wanted! And they were only $250! Wow!!
Um...no. Come on - $250?!
So I got the $32 ones.
They seem to be useless, but I am not so cooky that I won't acknowledge that perhaps I'm doing it wrong.
I select the proper colour for the gauge of wire, and I stick it into the matching colour slot on the tool. I squeeze it until the handles will not go any further, and when I let go (the ratcheting mech. releases), the connector comes free of the jaws and the wire(s) fall out. About 92% of the time.
I have tried adjusting the little star wheel...but AFAICT the jaws were already coming completely together (I can't get it to compress any tighter)
And alright - the jaws do not align absolutely perfectly. If I close them tight and look at them from the end furthest from the hinge...the lower jaw is canted about 2º. (If the upper jaw is pointing at twelve o'clock, the lower jaw should be at six o'clock, but it's actually at about 5:50) So it's possible that the crimp is VERY SLIGHTLY sub-optimal. But I'd like to ask:
Does anyone own those gold-plated crimpers that are made in a Beverly Hills factory? Are they really that much better? or am I doing something wrong? I have tried to stick in the vinyl-coated connector less...and more. And I've tried red connectors AND blue ones. And I've tried butt connectors, ring terminals & banana plugs. All of them have the same result.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: July 26, 2014 at 12:09 AM / IP Logged  
POST ED - Sorry for the rant. Maybe just skip to the last 2 paragraphs. The rest is mere histrionics etc.
China is like Japan. There was once an adage "Jap Crap". And China has been at the interim point for quite a while. They have recently been producing quality stuff. I suspect many still think their favorite products are still made locally or elsewhere.
If talking typical the typical red, blue & yellow "Insulated Terminals", I've been crimping them for decades with my original relatively cheap typical flat tool - crimps at the end with strippers & cutters handle side & bolt cutters central. That IMO has been fine and I've had few if any problems with bad connections. In fact I probably have more problems with soldered wires breaking...
Much later I bought a 2nd similar looking crimper but it has been useless. Even when bent back [i]straight & in line[/i] its gauge is too thin - it will usually [i]scissor twist[/i] when crimping unless I counter with my free hand. I'm determined to throw it out next time I find it.
Despite my happiness with my "primitive" & cheap crimper, having read the repeated wisdom of Howard and other gurus hereon I recently took the opportunity of (IMO) [i]investing properly[/i] and hence got a $40 [URL=http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TH1829]Jaycar ratchet crimper[/URL]. (I had a $100 credit voucher but no direct component needs.)
My verdict is still out. I've only used it for a dozen or so crimps and was surprised when one did NOT take. I'm not sure about the others, but I suspect such crimpers need a central rise for extra compression at the centre.
It is a Duratech (Chinese) tool and tho its construction seems good, it may simply be lacking design finesse if there is a problem at all - ie, lack of central dimple.
Tools are tricky. You can have a great manufacturer with excellent build quality but lacking the design experience specific to that tool use. Or you can have newbies that are excellent.
I recall being chastised in the late 1970s for buying a "cheap" SEK socket set. Other mechanics etc reckoned Sidchrome was the only way to go.
I remember being told off for using one of their Sidchrome sockets on my impact driver - too hard, it will break. wth? I'd been using my SEKs for impacting... That SEK set was my first work & private set. It rebuilt the several cars & bikes and engines I owned; the 12 & 14mm especially getting much hammering so to speak.
After maybe 20 years I recall my first problem - the 14mm socket had stretched so much it was useless (at least I think that was my SEK) but the rest are still fine to this day. I would probably only have gotten a few years out of (then quality) Sidchromes.
I still have my SEK open-ender ring spanners - also hammered at times get still unstretched and intact.
I think SEK has long been regarding as quality, but it was just 'cheap Jap crap' back then.
Sidchrome on the other hand has gone from (alleged) quality to cheese crap and back.
German tools were highly regarded but IMO overpriced, however I still cherish several Stahlwille spanners I have - fine & [i]thin[/i] yet tough yet with beautiful flex and form. They are brought out for the real hard nuts & hammer bashings.
These days are a pain. IMO no longer can a name or a price guarantee quality. I am wary of real cheapies like the $2 12mm spanner I bought that certainly did not look cheesy but its ring shattered on a tight bolt with mere hand pressure, but then my $11 6-piece double ended ratchet ring set was equal to equivalents costing well over $100 - except not as disposable LOL!
And my 1980s 50c no-name Jewelers screwdriver set (cheap even back then) is still probably the best I've ever had; some survive even today.
Maybe the best solution is reviews keeping in mind the type of use (several & professional versus occasional hobby) as well as longetivity.
The latter makes me think of Yale's copy of the Abus Diskus lock. Both seemed the same until a few months in the weather (or traveling with a bike). The Yale would seize within 12 months; the Abus is still fine after 30 years. (And the diskus is one lock you do NOT want to be required to 'crack'!!)
Put it this way, if Howard or IAAI or other similar gurus hereon provide tool suggestions, it should (still?) be accurate.
Of course non-professional cheapskates like me often reject the associate prices, but for key things will pay for that peace of mind.
ronemca 
Copper - Posts: 107
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: July 26, 2014 at 6:44 AM / IP Logged  
Well said as always, Sir - our viewpoint is very similar.
The ones you linked are just like mine. I tried to "draw" an end-on diagram of how the jaws come together...but the formatting of this forum wouldn't keep my lines where I put them. Basically there are two | | little fangs(?) on the lower jaw and a single one | on the upper jaw...and the upper comes down between the lowers.
I have not had the pleasure of benefitting from Howard's counsel...but I hope he shares an opinion forthwith. (And anyone else too, naturally!)
As a partial aside...it is a definite pattern of behaviour for me to source & procure specialized tools AFTER I identify the need for same. (In some cases my post-project rationalization bears fruit, and I actually DO use the brand new specialized tool on another project!) And in this case I figure I will definitely use [good quality] crimping tools again & again...
So I really would like to get a pair that work. And while I agree that squishing those tiny aluminum collars flat does seem to hold the wire...it has always struck me as a rather ghetto solution to an operation that could be done oh-so-much-more-neatly (think Mayo versus M.A.S.H.)
ronemca 
Copper - Posts: 107
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM / IP Logged  
I have narrowed the choices to these two from Thomas & Betts:
ERG2001
ERG4001
I'm still trying to determine the difference between these two models...but in the mean time I am trying to find them for less than the [typical] asking price of $250 to $350.
(Really?! What the heck are they made of?! Titanium?)
Does anyone have either of these? or can anyone explain the diff <-> the two models?
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 5:47 PM / IP Logged  
Some thoughts, I use a compound ratchet crimper from a French company called Facom, top end stuff, though there's got to be an irony there doing auto electrics but refusing to do French cars yet using a French crimper.
Stahwille were reckoned to be the Rolls Royce of spanners 40 years ago, don't know where you'd find them now though.
Thomas and Betts is a well known tool manufacturer, are they US made?
Just looked, rather expensive, the Facom I've had for about 12 years, doing say 20 crimps a week, £35, about $50.
A hint,make sure your wire thickness matches your connector.
No point using say a blue connector with 22 gauge wire.
Nowadays I only crimp either receptacles (known in the UK as "Lucar", 1/4" or 6mm) and ring terminals for power and ground. Everything else is soldered.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 5:56 PM / IP Logged  
Try this:-
http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?cPath=35_66_111_1109&products_id=4500.
A company called Ultimate Garage, US agent5s for Facom, $85 which isn't bad considering 12 years of inflation plus shipping over the ditch to shipping over the pond.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 8:15 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks for chiming in Howard.
I like your French tools verses electrics irony - a bit like my Bosch situation (Bosch gas gun great; other Bosch not good to bad) where I could almost say they're all great for starting fires - if only their electrics were string enough (relays excluded; their basic relays are good IMO). Alas I thought Facom made computers (ha ha).
The Facom crimper bits look very similar to mine but I can't see the top surfaces which evidently have some extra detail.
Their handle shape however is quite different - not in line like mine.   
But I'll take note your gauge matching tip -cum- warning. That I tend not to worry about - eg, often using blue in lieu of red - though I will usually double or triple the conductor.
I am now also aware of "bad" crimps that have sharp instead of rounded internal outlet edges that can easily cut thru the wire.
ronemca 
Copper - Posts: 107
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 8:58 PM / IP Logged  
Thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts, Howard! Some tasty food for thought there. Indeed I am very aware/cautious of wire gauge when selecting a solderless connector.
Contrary to my usual practise (blaming the tool holding the pliers before the pliers) I place the blame squarely on the crimpers in this case. And I believe the jaws are 95% of it. Not only are they slightly mis-aligned -- which is likely worth about 5% of that 95% -- but I'll wager that their design is sub-optimal.
Those FACOM's look a treat, though! I may just try to source a pair. It's slightly annoying that they never came up in my (fairly extensive, I thought) Internet sleuthing.
I hope someone else has an opinion and/or a review to share(?)
Anyone?
ronemca 
Copper - Posts: 107
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: July 28, 2014 at 9:16 PM / IP Logged  
Okay - aside from the cost, what's the difference between these FACOM tools?
985894
985753
673838
I have to presume that one or more of the terms "Maintenance", "Production" and "Standard" are significant; this is not the first time I have seen the first two of these terms.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: July 29, 2014 at 2:31 AM / IP Logged  
I missed that bit from my post thanks Oldspark, - though I will usually double or triple the conductor.
Ronemca give me a link please.
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